@andrea tasselli I've accepted your booking - thanks! The process isn't automatic unfortunately. @andrea tasselli@Michael Ring@Brian Boyle I'd be happy to add you guys as editors on the booking sheet if you'd like. Brian is based (I think) in New Zealand and I'm in Australia. If Michael or Andrea are based in either Europe or the Americas, that would give us good time zone coverage for accepting bookings and responding to comments. PM me your Google ID if you're interested and I'll add you in.
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I've sent you my google mail account, I can cover Europe….
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@James Tickner happy to do my bit for NZ. Not many other countries on the same longitude(!). Kamchatka penisula perhaps. Will PM my google name.
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Managed 29 x 180sec sub frames on Field 39 over last two nights before fog rolled in. Poor transparency on about half of them, I reckon an 1hr effective expsosure time. However, I am in Bortle 2 and have a 200mm f/2 camera, so that should almost be enough. Will check the SNR tomorrow after a bit of sleep, but for now here's the annotated image with STF applied. Ir has south at the top, as befitting our field grid.  |
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Brian Boyle:
Managed 29 x 180sec sub frames on Field 39 The Dark Doodad and C108 - nice! Only 1119 fields still to go  |
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My panel is also 'kind of ready'. Currently I cannot get exiting views of the night sky from my bortle 4 balcony so I booked a tile in the middle of nowhere, a bit away from the milky way (Panel 618) I recorded about 5 hous over 3 nights and ended up using the best 3 hours. I also did a 2nd integration with only 1.5 hours with the results from last night where I did a little tweak on backfocus. The stars also seem to get more and more blue in direction bottom left. @Brian Boyle, can you please provide me the upload link? I would also be interested which tool you use to measure SNR We need to check if quality of my subs is good enough, the stars in some corners are a bit triangular and applying BlurXterminator is making star shapes even worse. Any help from other Samyang Users is highly apprechiated, I am just printing an aperture ring to step down the lens a little bit but the triangular shaped stars more feel like pinched optics.   |
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Michael Ring:
My panel is also 'kind of ready'. Currently I cannot get exiting views of the night sky from my bortle 4 balcony so I booked a tile in the middle of nowhere, a bit away from the milky way (Panel 618)
I recorded about 5 hous over 3 nights and ended up using the best 3 hours. I also did a 2nd integration with only 1.5 hours with the results from last night where I did a little tweak on backfocus. The stars also seem to get more and more blue in direction bottom left.
@Brian Boyle, can you please provide me the upload link? I would also be interested which tool you use to measure SNR
We need to check if quality of my subs is good enough, the stars in some corners are a bit triangular and applying BlurXterminator is making star shapes even worse.
Any help from other Samyang Users is highly apprechiated, I am just printing an aperture ring to step down the lens a little bit but the triangular shaped stars more feel like pinched optics.
Are you using a FF or APS-C? as for the star shapes and colours, the lens suffers from coma rather than tri-foil, with chromatic variation of the same. I though the Samyang haa an aperture stop but if you don't like the star-burst effects then you can put a step-down adapter (or series of such) to achieve the equivalent effect.
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Sensor is APS-C size, ASI071MCPro.
The lens does have an aperature ring but I am in the mood for experiments and thought I try the aperture rings as my 3d printer felt a little bored anyway…
Michael
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@Michael Ring PM me your email and I will send dropbox link You raise a good point about measuring SNR. It is not easy. I first I check that ADU of sky and a few catalogued stars in my calibrated subframes [using the Stats and AperturePhotometry routine] match my calculated SNR (see above]. But I am not doing that for every frame.... and so it relies on each frame having good transparency throughout. For the final linear frame, I do something a little creative/dodgy [depending on your point-of-view] but I find it good enough. And it might work for a first pass at QC. It has the benefit of being relatively simple and quick. Not super-accurate, but is in the ball-park. 1) Run StarXterminator 2) Find small patch of sky that looks flat (without nebulosity) 100 x 100 pix and use the PI Stats routine on it. 3) Divide mean by MAD and you have your SNR/resolution for the brightness of your sky. [Calculated as above] I might not need to run SXT, but I want to be sure I am measuring SNR of as blank a bit of sky as possible. In the Field 39 image that number is 45 for a sky of 21.9 mag/arcsec in a 6 arcsec pixel [SNR=75 in a 10 arcsec pixel] or an SNR=25 at 22.5 mag. This confirms my "gut" feel about the conditions - namely that although I used 90minutes compared to the hour calculated, there was a lot of haze/fog around and I will need another 30min- 1hour. Re: image structure. I still believe that BlurXterminator is a possible solution. I hear that it provides aliasing problems during mosaicing [I have yet to see this - my only experience is positive in this regard], but I would rather use BXT to improve image quality across the sensor, than reject frames that would otherwise be acceptable. Deconvolution is a very standard part of the astronomers tool-kit these days. [Always has been for radioastronomy]. It is as standard as photometric calibration. It is non-destructive, as reversing the procedure is [mathematically-speaking] non-destructive. Brilliant tool though it is, BXT is a however a little bit of a black box [understandable given the IP] but to mean it is no more of a black box than many of PI's routines. Have to tried BXT to see if it improves the images? Brian
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James Tickner:
Brian Boyle:
Managed 29 x 180sec sub frames on Field 39
The Dark Doodad and C108 - nice!
Only 1119 fields still to go Thanks James. I chose the field because it was on the meridian during moon down at the start of the night, and -70 because I am already at lat -45. CS Brian
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Brian Boyle:
it is no more of a black box than many of PI's routines Just a small note: PixInsight developers are heavily influenced by Jean-Luc Starck and his work on multiscale methods. Have a look at the references found on the Reference Documentation and Processing Examples at PixInsight Resources. You will also find references to the good-old Numerical Recipes book. Sadly, the PI team lags at producing documentation covering their latest tools. As I am not a customer of Russ Croman, I can't comment if the documentation of his products provide any useful references.
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I've added a few more features to the booking sheet: some instructions, fields to indicate when a field was imaged and whether it has been QC checked and a progress indicator.
Yes, I'm futzing. It's still raining here.
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@James Tickner Thank you for that, although the numbers of booked tiles is a bit on the low side. I need to drive to my parents and saw that they currently have no astronomical darkness but clear skies  That might be a reason (besides rain) for only few tiles booked atm. Yesterday I was able to start Field 666, another one of those boring fields with not much going on. The question is what to do with those areas, do we want to keep up our quality oriented rules or is there an option for shortcuts? Two things that come to my mind is allowing non Astro-modded DSLR's in those areas (I could then do 2 boring fields in one session because of the larger sensor) or/and to allow shorter integration times. The following is done with 1.5hrs and not perfect skies, there were some high clouds yesterday but still, could it be good enough for such an area? What do you guys think?  |
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Looks like the survey is starting finally!
I don't think that we can really make a shortcut in those ways.
The first problem is, where do we really find empty skies? Most areas of the sky show faint nebula in DSS-R overlay in Stellarium, so it is a good guess that we will be able to capture those nebulas from dark skies with our target SNR. That effectively makes no place of the sky really empty.
Secondly, since hydrogen is the most common element in the universe and thus H Alpha the most common singular wavelength in the sky, it is likely that many of these nebulas will emit in that range. Using non-modded cameras would decrease the SNR in that wavelength extremely to a point where faint H Alpha nebulas completely vanished from the images.
CS Gerrit
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Here is one frame (B) from my field (58). I hope it is wide enough as I'm bit tight in RA (using a FLI Proline 16200). Field_58_andreatax_20230609_002650_300S_Blue_Annotated.jpg |
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You can check with CatalogStarGenerator if you framing is OK. When you provide your focal length I can also create a reference image for you
Michael
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Michael Ring:
You can check with CatalogStarGenerator if you framing is OK. When you provide your focal length I can also create a reference image for you
Michael Can't see how. Never mind it doesn't work. Image Plate Solver script version 5.6.6 =============================================================================== WCS transformation ....... Linear Projection ............... Gnomonic Projection origin ........ [2249.997551 1800.000126] px -> [RA: 12 33 59.087 Dec: -65 00 46.69] Resolution ............... 6.296 arcsec/px Rotation ................. -179.802 deg Reference system ......... ICRS Observation start time ... 2023-06-09 00:27:05 UTC Observation end time ..... 2023-06-09 00:32:05 UTC Geodetic coordinates ..... 71 45 54 W 30 28 15 S 1600 m Focal distance ........... 196.57 mm Pixel size ............... 6.00 um Field of view ............ 7d 52' 10.9" x 6d 17' 44.7" Image center ............. RA: 12 33 59.090 Dec: -65 00 46.69 Image bounds: top-left .............. RA: 11 52 07.533 Dec: -67 48 35.74 top-right ............. RA: 13 15 39.093 Dec: -67 50 31.87 bottom-left ........... RA: 12 01 00.419 Dec: -61 36 17.43 bottom-right .......... RA: 13 07 11.289 Dec: -61 37 49.40
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Yepp, there's quite a bit missing left & right, the black parts in this pic should not be black:  N.I.N.A also agrees, the white lines show the limits of your sensor, the background is the 9x6 sized field:  Here are the parameters required to draw your 9x6 tile:  |
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All well and not so good but:
1. Would it still offer some measure of overlap with a regular tile with 9deg width in RA?
2. Would it still have some (maybe minimal) overlap with an identical-sized tile to the left and right?
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I can answer my 2nd question: no, there is small gap in coverage at lower Dec. This being said can @James Tickner remove the comment for further allocation of fields 57 and 59.
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@andrea tasselli It seems I can't delete comments from other people! I've marked it as resolved so it doesn't show up as a little triangle. I think you should be able to delete it as the original poster. Just to cross-check I assume you don't want to book fields 57 and 59 now?
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James Tickner:
@andrea tasselli It seems I can't delete comments from other people! I've marked it as resolved so it doesn't show up as a little triangle. I think you should be able to delete it as the original poster. Just to cross-check I assume you don't want to book fields 57 and 59 now? That's correct. I was trying to delete it myself but couldn't figure out how...
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andrea tasselli:
I can answer my 2nd question: no, there is small gap in coverage at lower Dec.
This being said can @James Tickner remove the comment for further allocation of fields 57 and 59. @andrea tasselli does my field 39 cover the gap sufficiently? I was plaaning to do an RA strip at -70 CS Brian
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Brian Boyle:
@andrea tasselli does my field 39 cover the gap sufficiently? I was plaaning to do an RA strip at -70 I had the same thought, only for -65 Dec. Remind me what is your sensor and I'll check. Edit: no it doesn't work since you're higher negative Dec then mine and the trouble is at lower aboslute declinations. If someone is using a 135mm with APS-C or a 200mm FF camera to cover the strip at -60 Dec than it can be done.
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ASI2400mC Full frame at 200mm focal length. Based on the position of Beta Mus on both our images, I reckon we have about 1.5degs of overlap….
CS Brian
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