First attempt at a rig after discovering that the Samyang 135 + Nikon is just too heavy to bolt on top of my normal scope. Learnings: - I need to rotate the camera 90 degrees (cue embarrassment)- - Mounting the camera via the normal shoe just isn't good enough - this lens is heavy! - The lightweight aluminium tubing I used has too much flex - Polar alignment in NINA using the Samyang really struggled. Successive attempts had me shifting things back and forth by a degree or more, and constant corrections during guiding indicated that even then the alignment was significantly off. I ended up using the guide scope for polar alignement and that worked a lot better. - Focus on the Samyang is really touchy and needed regular tweaking. I need to figure out how to connect my EAF I've ordered another pair of 3-point mounting rings, which should take care of supporting the camera + lens and allowing for rotation. Hopefully a steel top plate will fix up the stiffness issues. Does anyone have any experience of the Astrodymium or Hyperpod 135 mounting systems? Both look like an all-in-one solution for mounting, focussing and rotation.  |
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 Since we are sharing I thought I would show you my rig. [Note I just took the lens cover off and the air temp has been pretty much tracking the dew point for the past week - both around 0C - so the plastic lens hood looks a bit damp... ] Its a Nikor 200mm f2 with a ZWO ASI 2400MC. The lens is fabulously expensive new [its a 100mm f2 refractor] but I got it for 1/10th the price on ebay becasue the AF didn't work. Sometimes you just get lucky.... As you can see I don't have an off the shelf system for bolting on guide scopes and focussers. My ZWO EAF focusser is attached to the focus ring via a 3D printer capstan (on the EAF spindle) and 3D printer belt. Various ARCA clamps and other photogrpahic brackets have been repurposed to build something of a Frankenstein's monster of a wide-field field. It is heavy (10kg) and I needed an EQ5 mount. I did try the EQM35 but it was a pile of s**t. Control via ZWO ASIair and tracking better than 1arsec with the ZWO ASI120MM mini and an Astrozap dew strap with heating on max for these cold nights where I am close to the dew point. [As you can see I am a bit of a ZWO fanboy.] Oh, and yes, my cable management is truly apocalyptic. I just don't have a neat and tidy mind. I run the Nikor wide open. I used to stop down, using a bit of a plastic milk carton inserted into the aperture mechanism on the lens, but the image quality gain v speed losses weren't worth it. And certainly not now Blur Xterminator exists as a robust deconvolution option. As I previously said, not using deconvolution is like not photometrically calibrating your data. Data simply isn't data until you take as much of the instrumental response out. I am pretty happy with my system - it is very fast. Although I did make life hard for myself by going the 200mm focal length route. I do look at Samyang/Rokinon 135mm f1.4 owners, and the Astrodynium bracket with envy. A lot of good reports on it by AB users I respect. So @James Tickner if your wallet can afford it, I think it is a wise investment. CS Brian
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Here's my current rig, all parts besides the green vixen rail are 3D printed, please excuse the mess at my Parent's home.... The focusser is easy to attach, see the extra picture. For my 400mm twins (Two Esprit ED80 lenses) I use this as a mounting solution: https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4430_TS-Optics-Doppelbefestigung-Losmandy-Level-fuer-parallele-Befestigung.htmlIt is a sturdy solution for a fair price. @James Tickner If you want I can 3D print that focussing ring, with this and a GT2-Belt it is easy to attach a ZWO Autofocusser to the system (or share the STL in case you have access to a 3D printer). I am currently designing a V2 of my mounting solution for the Samyang, it will come with a built in Rotator and a focusser attachment that will rotate with the lens, the main drawback of my V1 solution is that when I rotate the lens I have to redo Focus or, even worse, have to detach the focusser to be able to rotate. V2 will fix that. Michael   |
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Brian Boyle:
ASI2400mC Full frame at 200mm focal length. Based on the position of Beta Mus on both our images, I reckon we have about 1.5degs of overlap....
CS Brian As I said before, it's at lower Dec that the missing overlap exist. I'll need to move to lower Dec to have a full coverage.
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Here is a quick and dirty PI GradientMergeMosaic from a MosaicByCoordinates using Hammer-Aitoff projection of the first five fields I have covered. Note that Field 24 has some fog during the exposures which resulted in halos around the stars - I am retaking the data as I write. The PI Merge is not great - obvious seams exists (very noticale when you apply STF without ouf the black missing data. Does anyone know how to make PI work at doing mosaics. I use APP, but I beleive we agreed not to go there. But its a start - and the tiling works geometrically!  |
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andrea tasselli:
Brian Boyle:
ASI2400mC Full frame at 200mm focal length. Based on the position of Beta Mus on both our images, I reckon we have about 1.5degs of overlap....
CS Brian
As I said before, it's at lower Dec that the missing overlap exist. I'll need to move to lower Dec to have a full coverage. @andrea tasselli Apologies, I misunderstood. By lower dec I thought you meant more southerly dec.
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@Brian Boyle Looking good! Do I see correctly that the belt from the EAF is directly wrapped around the ribbed rubber focus grip? I was playing with that idea, but noticed that the commercial 3D printed mounts have a toothed gear that clamps onto the focus instead. Do you find your approach works well? Certainly looks simpler. For cables (and all sorts of other bits and pieces) I'm a big Aliexpress fan. There are loads of suppliers providing USB cables in every length and connector combination - I tend to go for really short leads with right-angle connectors (you can choose the direction) so that the cables emerge from the different devices heading the right way. Plus they're usually really cheap! Good to see the EQ5 as well. That's my only mount at the moment and it definitely gets loaded up to the limit.
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Brian Boyle:
The PI Merge is not great - obvious seams exists (very noticale when you apply STF without ouf the black missing data. Does anyone know how to make PI work at doing mosaics. I use APP, but I beleive we agreed not to go there. Glad to see the geometry bits are correct, one less thing to worry about. GradientMergeMosaic doesn't do that well depending on the degree of feathering and the size of the overlap. Usually, making smaller overlapping areas makes the job easier.
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Michael Ring:
Here's my current rig, all parts besides the green vixen rail are 3D printed, please excuse the mess at my Parent's home....
The focusser is easy to attach, see the extra picture.
For my 400mm twins (Two Esprit ED80 lenses) I use this as a mounting solution:
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4430_TS-Optics-Doppelbefestigung-Losmandy-Level-fuer-parallele-Befestigung.html
It is a sturdy solution for a fair price.
@James Tickner If you want I can 3D print that focussing ring, with this and a GT2-Belt it is easy to attach a ZWO Autofocusser to the system (or share the STL in case you have access to a 3D printer).
I am currently designing a V2 of my mounting solution for the Samyang, it will come with a built in Rotator and a focusser attachment that will rotate with the lens, the main drawback of my V1 solution is that when I rotate the lens I have to redo Focus or, even worse, have to detach the focusser to be able to rotate. V2 will fix that.
Michael @Michael Ring If you could PM me the STL file for the focussing ring that would be great. Did you also print your own mounting rings?
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James Tickner:
@Brian Boyle Looking good!
Do I see correctly that the belt from the EAF is directly wrapped around the ribbed rubber focus grip? I was playing with that idea, but noticed that the commercial 3D printed mounts have a toothed gear that clamps onto the focus instead. Do you find your approach works well? Certainly looks simpler.
For cables (and all sorts of other bits and pieces) I'm a big Aliexpress fan. There are loads of suppliers providing USB cables in every length and connector combination - I tend to go for really short leads with right-angle connectors (you can choose the direction) so that the cables emerge from the different devices heading the right way. Plus they're usually really cheap!
Good to see the EQ5 as well. That's my only mount at the moment and it definitely gets loaded up to the limit. Yes it is - and it works well. I get a consistent focus with the EAF every time. I do do need a few spares however. It has survived one winter of sub-zero nights, not too sure about this one.... CS Brian
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James Tickner:
@Brian Boyle Looking good!
Do I see correctly that the belt from the EAF is directly wrapped around the ribbed rubber focus grip? I was playing with that idea, but noticed that the commercial 3D printed mounts have a toothed gear that clamps onto the focus instead. Do you find your approach works well? Certainly looks simpler.
For cables (and all sorts of other bits and pieces) I'm a big Aliexpress fan. There are loads of suppliers providing USB cables in every length and connector combination - I tend to go for really short leads with right-angle connectors (you can choose the direction) so that the cables emerge from the different devices heading the right way. Plus they're usually really cheap!
Good to see the EQ5 as well. That's my only mount at the moment and it definitely gets loaded up to the limit. @James Tickner Glad to see you are taking on the polar fields. As long as the weather holds, I will press on with the 70S/75S/80S strip. If I can squeeze 11hr in at the start of the nights and push to around 18hr. andrea tasselli:
Brian Boyle:
The PI Merge is not great - obvious seams exists (very noticale when you apply STF without ouf the black missing data. Does anyone know how to make PI work at doing mosaics. I use APP, but I beleive we agreed not to go there.
Glad to see the geometry bits are correct, one less thing to worry about. GradientMergeMosaic doesn't do that well depending on the degree of feathering and the size of the overlap. Usually, making smaller overlapping areas makes the job easier. @andrea tasselli Thanks, I might try that. Certainly making the fields a little smaller (to reduce the overlap) also takes one further from the vignetted areas in corcens what the flat-field correction is noisier. Brian
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Hello everyone, What an interesting initiative! Great work so far, that's very impressive. I would be glad to participate from my modest Bortle 7 terrace. I can set up my travel mount with my Samyang 135mm and ASI2600MC and hopefully contribute a few panels. I recently started doing mosaics, well, actually just 2 so far! But it turned out great, thanks to the few tutorials I found here and there. Really impressed at how PixInsight managed to stitch without any visible artefact. I'm currently working on an SHO 2x1 mosaic of the Sadr region with my RedCat 51. So I'd be happy to double the fun and get the Samyang out as well.  |
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Hello everyone,
What an interesting initiative! Great work so far, that's very impressive.
I would be glad to participate from my modest Bortle 7 terrace. I can set up my travel mount with my Samyang 135mm and ASI2600MC and hopefully contribute a few panels.
I recently started doing mosaics, well, actually just 2 so far! But it turned out great, thanks to the few tutorials I found here and there. Really impressed at how PixInsight managed to stitch without any visible artefact. I'm currently working on an SHO 2x1 mosaic of the Sadr region with my RedCat 51. So I'd be happy to double the fun and get the Samyang out as well.
@konzy - could you possibly link to the guides you found particularly useful for mosaics?
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Brian Boyle:
Here is a quick and dirty PI GradientMergeMosaic from a MosaicByCoordinates using Hammer-Aitoff projection of the first five fields I have covered.
Note that Field 24 has some fog during the exposures which resulted in halos around the stars - I am retaking the data as I write.
The PI Merge is not great - obvious seams exists (very noticale when you apply STF without ouf the black missing data. Does anyone know how to make PI work at doing mosaics. I use APP, but I beleive we agreed not to go there.
But its a start - and the tiling works geometrically!
Would you be willing to share the individual linear images making up the mosaic? If possible after they have been transformed onto the regular 10x10” grid using PI? I’d like to have a play with some of the ideas I discussed above, namely the geometric transformations and the fitting and removal of colour and background differences. Clouds and rain forecast here for the next week ☹️
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James Tickner:
Brian Boyle:
Here is a quick and dirty PI GradientMergeMosaic from a MosaicByCoordinates using Hammer-Aitoff projection of the first five fields I have covered.
Note that Field 24 has some fog during the exposures which resulted in halos around the stars - I am retaking the data as I write.
The PI Merge is not great - obvious seams exists (very noticale when you apply STF without ouf the black missing data. Does anyone know how to make PI work at doing mosaics. I use APP, but I beleive we agreed not to go there.
But its a start - and the tiling works geometrically!
Would you be willing to share the individual linear images making up the mosaic? If possible after they have been transformed onto the regular 10x10” grid using PI?
I’d like to have a play with some of the ideas I discussed above, namely the geometric transformations and the fitting and removal of colour and background differences.
Clouds and rain forecast here for the next week ☹️ Hi James Very happy to share the images. Will upload to the dropbox site, after I add in the extra data collected for F24 last night) and anything I collect tonight Hi James Very happy to share the images. Will upload to the dropbox site, after I add in the extra data collected for F24 last night) and anything I collect tonight [already half way through F41. At the moment I am flat out with processing data during the day and taking it during the night. And, in the process, learning more about best approach in PI for merging. Although painstaking - because you have only merge two images at a time - is the use of MosaicByCoordinates and then PhotometricMosaic. I am getting a lot of requests - and I will get round to them - but at the moment I am prioritising data taking! Also, I am organising a big public AP event locally for June/July so my days are pretty full too. Apologies if you don't get an immediate reply. Brian
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HI all - still working on possible mosaicing approaches.. Tried out MosaicByCoordinates and then PhotometricMosaic on 3 of the fields I have imaged; F39, F24 and F13. [F24 still has some compromised data, and I will need to reprocess using data I obtained last night, but I am running w-a-a-y behind] Here is the merged out of the fields [note I de-convolved using BXT and calibrated using SPCC - but I did not use ABE/DBE. My flat-fields should have been good enough! Here is the annotated mosaic (with STF)  To really test the blending, I cropped a rectangular region, applied a bit of an arcsinh stretch and reduced the stars using a StarXtermintor mask. Finally I binned up to 10arcsec. Here is the result  What I like about this is that there are no seams - despite a strong stretch - and the Milky gradient shows up. If I were just imaging the "Doodad" or the Chameleon "V" I would set the levels differently (and spend a lot more effort on colours/contrast). But I simply wanted to push to see if I could see any boundaries in the mosaic and reproduce the large scale (> 10 deg) gradient) In this respect, it looks promising. But boy, it is tedious. Brian
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Christian Bennich:
Hello everyone,
What an interesting initiative! Great work so far, that's very impressive.
I would be glad to participate from my modest Bortle 7 terrace. I can set up my travel mount with my Samyang 135mm and ASI2600MC and hopefully contribute a few panels.
I recently started doing mosaics, well, actually just 2 so far! But it turned out great, thanks to the few tutorials I found here and there. Really impressed at how PixInsight managed to stitch without any visible artefact. I'm currently working on an SHO 2x1 mosaic of the Sadr region with my RedCat 51. So I'd be happy to double the fun and get the Samyang out as well.
@konzy - could you possibly link to the guides you found particularly useful for mosaics? Certainly! I started with some basic tutorial found on the net, but the result wasn't seemless. But then I stumbled upon this very good tutorial by Russell. I applied his parameters and that did the trick! Creating a Mosaic image in 3 simple steps: PixInsight Mosaic Tutorial - YouTubeYou can see an example here with the 2 versions, before and after applying Russell's settings from the video: Soul Nebula mosaic (2x1) ( konzy ) - AstroBinHere is another example of a 2x1 mosaic I recently shot and processed with this technique: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/410388-a-mosaic-of-sadr-and-the-crescent-nebula/Hope that helps! Honestly, with the new mosaic functionality in the ASIAIR and this tutorial, making mosaic became very easy and works very well. I have a plan for this summer to make mosaics of the Heart & Soul, as well as Andromeda. And this winter, Orion and his friend the horse.
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Hi all,
This is a really fun and interesting idea, although someone's going to have their work cut out for them with merging everything into one mosaic…
Would you guys be interested in existing data? I've shot a few very wide mosaics with my modded Canon 600D and Rokinon 135mm lens and would be happy to provide the data if it would be useful. Specifically, I've shot the region around Orion, the Taurus DN complex, and Cepheus through Polaris. There's quite a few panels and the alignment is a bit odd as I was manually framing them. But it does cover a pretty big chunk of sky.
Thanks,
Todd
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Yes, please!
Your data has won several IOT's and more recommendations that I can ever dream of having myself, so my guess is that it will be very beneficial to the whole project
Michael
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Christian Bennich:
Hello everyone,
What an interesting initiative! Great work so far, that's very impressive.
I would be glad to participate from my modest Bortle 7 terrace. I can set up my travel mount with my Samyang 135mm and ASI2600MC and hopefully contribute a few panels.
I recently started doing mosaics, well, actually just 2 so far! But it turned out great, thanks to the few tutorials I found here and there. Really impressed at how PixInsight managed to stitch without any visible artefact. I'm currently working on an SHO 2x1 mosaic of the Sadr region with my RedCat 51. So I'd be happy to double the fun and get the Samyang out as well.
@konzy - could you possibly link to the guides you found particularly useful for mosaics?
Certainly! I started with some basic tutorial found on the net, but the result wasn't seemless. But then I stumbled upon this very good tutorial by Russell. I applied his parameters and that did the trick!
Creating a Mosaic image in 3 simple steps: PixInsight Mosaic Tutorial - YouTube
You can see an example here with the 2 versions, before and after applying Russell's settings from the video: Soul Nebula mosaic (2x1) ( konzy ) - AstroBin
Here is another example of a 2x1 mosaic I recently shot and processed with this technique: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/410388-a-mosaic-of-sadr-and-the-crescent-nebula/
Hope that helps! Honestly, with the new mosaic functionality in the ASIAIR and this tutorial, making mosaic became very easy and works very well. I have a plan for this summer to make mosaics of the Heart & Soul, as well as Andromeda. And this winter, Orion and his friend the horse.
Thanks, I did actually watch that video as well yesterday. I look forward to being able to do some imaging againg. Currently here in Denmark, we do not have much real darkness during the night 😃😃
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This is Field 58, with south on top. I'll have to share the RGB composite as some point while I ponder what to do next, probably start shooting around the equator. Field58_Chilescope_T4_RGB.jpg |
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Todd Stephens:
Hi all,
This is a really fun and interesting idea, although someone's going to have their work cut out for them with merging everything into one mosaic...
Would you guys be interested in existing data? I've shot a few very wide mosaics with my modded Canon 600D and Rokinon 135mm lens and would be happy to provide the data if it would be useful. Specifically, I've shot the region around Orion, the Taurus DN complex, and Cepheus through Polaris. There's quite a few panels and the alignment is a bit odd as I was manually framing them. But it does cover a pretty big chunk of sky.
Thanks,
Todd Todd, That would be wonderful. Would you be able to provide them in the format specific by the pipeline i.e. linear output from WBPP on 7.5 x 5 deg field centres? If not, what format would work best for you? It may appear a little crazy to request a (de)processing of your data, but ultimately we are going have to try to bring everything together in as homogeneous fashion as possible. I realise that this is a big ask [I have a number of large mosaics - over 2000 sq deg of sky covered, but I shied away from re-processing them into ABC survey format as yet. If I get some spare time.... Anyway let me know what you can provide and I will send a link to the DropBox. At the moment I am overwhelmed with my day job and taking data for the survey at night, so any processing of other's data beyond the pipeline probably isn't gping to happen by me. [I haven't even got the data for the fields I have taken to the DropBox site yet] Brian
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There are now 9 fields on the Dropbox in the patch between 11h and 17h on the Dec strips -70, -75, -80. I am processing another - and observing two more tonight. Those will be uploaded over the next 24hours. If you don't have access, but would like to try and mosaic the data please ask me to send you the link I have applied SPCC to each, but no DBE/ABE. If @James Tickner is able to do the polar fields and @andrea tasselli cover some of the -65 strip, then we should have good coverage from the Milky Way down to the pole - with the IFN regions of Chameleon and Apus covered. This should provide one of the most stringest tests of our mosaicing - milky way gradient, faint IFN and polar geometry. If we can do this, we can do anything! I have also booked out a -40 dec strip that crosses the Milky Way (I plan to do this, after completing the 12 fields in the -70 -> -80 patch) primarily as a way to promote the survey, but also to demonstrate we can reproduce Milky Way stellar gradients across the plane. CS Brian
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@Brian Boyle have you seen my mail on calculating SNR? It was a little big in size because I included screenshots, I am still a bit lost with the full process for the calculations and have also taken data one field per night over the last nights. I would like to see if I have taken enough or if I have to re-visit some of the fields for more data. I envy you for your Bortle2 skies, for me @Bortle4 it takes a bit longer to build up SNR. Michael
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