So, What happened to the 0.65e- read noise advertised here on the touptek website: Big difference between 0.65-ish and 0.95 at gain 177 (factor of 1.46x more read noise than advertised)!! https://www.touptek-astro.com/ATR585C |
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John Stone:
So,
What happened to the 0.65e- read noise advertised here on the touptek website:
Big difference between 0.65-ish and 0.95 at gain 177 (factor of 1.46x more read noise than advertised)!!
https://www.touptek-astro.com/ATR585C
* It seems that with the current firmware version and clear hdr algorithm, Touptek is not able to provide a read noise lower than 1e and a stable camera. Yes, the specs were better but the camera had cooling, banding and hdr issues. Currently, it should be fine. @all Just for you to know, it seems the monochromatic version of the IMX585 is hitting the markets soon. QHYCCD released an All-In-One package with the MINICAM8, filterwheel and custom filters. Astroshop/Omegon is listing the Mono in their shop already: Omegon Camera veTEC 585 M Mono Available February 1st, 2025. Omegon is a Touptek rebrand, so I contacted Touptek to verify this. Maybe Touptek releases the "native" Mono version a bit earlier. Why do I write this? Look at those QE graphs from the MINICAM8: Quantum Efficiency Performance of the IMX585 Sensor in the QHY miniCAM8 | QHYCCD Astronomical & Scientific CameraThe sensor has over 90% QE for half the visible spectrum and even high IR and (assuming) high UV response. With Toupteks HDR algorithm, high full well and low read noise this sensor should be absolutely bonkers. As I moved to Mono imaging, I will definetly try out this camera and see how the luminance performs on my RC with no corrector in between and all that UV/IR hittin the sensor. SNR per sub should be nice. EDIT: Touptek answered me and the ATR585M will release "this month". Regards.
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John Stone:
So,
What happened to the 0.65e- read noise advertised here on the touptek website:
Big difference between 0.65-ish and 0.95 at gain 177 (factor of 1.46x more read noise than advertised)!!
https://www.touptek-astro.com/ATR585C
The camera does not match the marketing material at all, I had one of these cameras for test and review, and I could not get it to perform anywhere near the advertised spec, and so I returned the camera to Touptek, they have tried and tried with the firmware, but it was nit to be..☹️
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Tobiasz:
John Stone:
So,
What happened to the 0.65e- read noise advertised here on the touptek website:
Big difference between 0.65-ish and 0.95 at gain 177 (factor of 1.46x more read noise than advertised)!!
https://www.touptek-astro.com/ATR585C
*
It seems that with the current firmware version and clear hdr algorithm, Touptek is not able to provide a read noise lower than 1e and a stable camera. Yes, the specs were better but the camera had cooling, banding and hdr issues. Currently, it should be fine.
@all Just for you to know, it seems the monochromatic version of the IMX585 is hitting the markets soon. QHYCCD released an All-In-One package with the MINICAM8, filterwheel and custom filters.
Astroshop/Omegon is listing the Mono in their shop already: Omegon Camera veTEC 585 M Mono Available February 1st, 2025. Omegon is a Touptek rebrand, so I contacted Touptek to verify this. Maybe Touptek releases the "native" Mono version a bit earlier.
Why do I write this? Look at those QE graphs from the MINICAM8: Quantum Efficiency Performance of the IMX585 Sensor in the QHY miniCAM8 | QHYCCD Astronomical & Scientific Camera
The sensor has over 90% QE for half the visible spectrum and even high IR and (assuming) high UV response. With Toupteks HDR algorithm, high full well and low read noise this sensor should be absolutely bonkers. As I moved to Mono imaging, I will definetly try out this camera and see how the luminance performs on my RC with no corrector in between and all that UV/IR hittin the sensor. SNR per sub should be nice.
EDIT: Touptek answered me and the ATR585M will release "this month".
Regards. That's interesting, I own the ZWO version and would be very interested in adding a mono version of the same sensor.
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The Touptek customer service wrote me again, they will release the ATR585M tomorrow.
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I just received my touptek atr585c pro and of course ran some tests in sharpcap. I think there might be a bug somewhere haha Latest touptek firmware, latest sharpcap 4.1 and native driver HCG :  HDR :  |
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You should submit this back to SharpCap and see what they say.
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The ATR585M manual is available already and if you can believe those charts it seems Touptek fixed the read noise/dynamic range topic in HDR mode: ATR585M(ATR3CMOS08300KMA) User ManualLet's see if Sharpcap will agree :-D Regards
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I tested on a older version of sharpcap (4.1.12711) as Robin on sharpcap told me. At least the HDR analysis is not bugged :  |
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Hello fellow Astrobbiners. I'm coming in because I'm testing my brand new ATR585C and getting some odd results.
While everything is fine in the Low and High gain modes, in the HDR mode (latest firmware and Kstars/Ekos for acquisition), I have to increase the offset value to well above 1000, actually in the 4000 region, to avoid finding a large number of black pixels in the bias frames. Specifically at an offset of 1000 I find that almost 20% of the pixel in all three channels are dead black. I tested this at a gain value of 100, which is the lowest one if I'm not wrong. I have to test at higher gain values but at first sight it seems to behave the same, and according to theory it should get even worst. Is this normal?!?
Furthermore, the bias frame present a quite evident large scale inhomogeneity. This last issue could be due to a small light leak (doubtful since it's not compatible with the large amount of black pixel I see at low offsets… but you never know), but the black pixel issue bothers me… any experience with that?
Best
Massimo
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Furthermore, the bias frame present a quite evident large scale inhomogeneity. This last issue could be due to a small light leak (doubtful since it's not compatible with the large amount of black pixel I see at low offsets... but you never know), but the black pixel issue bothers me... any experience with that? I had the same bias issue on my tests. Turns out it was because the camera was plugged in a usb 2 port which is quite odd
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Furthermore, the bias frame present a quite evident large scale inhomogeneity. This last issue could be due to a small light leak (doubtful since it's not compatible with the large amount of black pixel I see at low offsets... but you never know), but the black pixel issue bothers me... any experience with that?
I had the same bias issue on my tests. Turns out it was because the camera was plugged in a usb 2 port which is quite odd
Interesting, however in my case everything goes through a USB 3 hub… I’ll try a direct USB 3 connection to the PC to see if something changes
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Received the new mono camera & the sensor analysis of sharpcap shows the same result as the color version. The new manual for the 585M is stating 0.64e readnoise in HDR and gain 100. Contacted Touptek again.  |
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Hi Tobiasz, same scenarion with my 585M received today. Let me know once you get Touptek reply otherwise I will write them as well. Seba  |
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Hi Tobiasz,
same scenarion with my 585M received today. Let me know once you get Touptek reply otherwise I will write them as well.
Seba
Yes, will do. I am still excited, that they released this fantastic sensor in the monochromatic version. Yes, the current performance is slightly reduced, but it is still crazy good. Almost 15 stop of dynamic range with a 12Bit sensor. You have to love it.
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Hooooold ooooon. I ran the sensor analysis again but this time by using the ASCOM driver instead the native driver, aaaand...... AMAZING results in read noise and DR. I will need to use the ASCOM driver anyway with Voyager since they have not developeed the respective native driver for Toputek cameras. So I am all settle here   |
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This data is a lot different then what I get with the ZWO color version of this sensor. In your graph I see no sign of HGC mode kicking in. The fact that you're getting super low read noise no matter what the gain is a bit odd.  |
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Hooooold ooooon. I ran the sensor analysis again but this time by using the ASCOM driver instead the native driver, aaaand...... AMAZING results in read noise and DR. I will need to use the ASCOM driver anyway with Voyager since they have not developeed the respective native driver for Toputek cameras. So I am all settle here
*whaaaaaaaaaat I have to rerun my sharpcap analysis, thanks for the hint! Galaxy lucky imaging here I come wohooo! Almost 16 stops of dynamic range, Touptek has some of the craziest engineers. Edit: Which driver version are you on?
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Tony Gondola:
This data is a lot different then what I get with the ZWO color version of this sensor. In your graph I see no sign of HGC mode kicking in. The fact that you're getting super low read noise no matter what the gain is a bit odd.
* Touptek does not provide the sensor modes like ZWO and others, where it switches automatically with the gain. You choose the mode in the dropdown menu in Nina beforehand. Nothing odd with the super low read noise, it is just Touptek making use of the "Clear HDR" feature that comes with the sensor. See earlier posts for more information on that topic. As far as I know Touptek is the only vendor who achieved to develop an HDR algorithm. Every other vendor (e.g. ZWO) uses only LCG/HCG modes, which underpowers the sensor by a large margin.
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Tobiasz:
Hooooold ooooon. I ran the sensor analysis again but this time by using the ASCOM driver instead the native driver, aaaand...... AMAZING results in read noise and DR. I will need to use the ASCOM driver anyway with Voyager since they have not developeed the respective native driver for Toputek cameras. So I am all settle here
*whaaaaaaaaaat I have to rerun my sharpcap analysis, thanks for the hint!
Galaxy lucky imaging here I come wohooo!
Almost 16 stops of dynamic range, Touptek has some of the craziest engineers.
Edit: Which driver version are you on? *the ASCOM driver that Touptek uploaded on their site on Dec 1st
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Tobiasz:
Hooooold ooooon. I ran the sensor analysis again but this time by using the ASCOM driver instead the native driver, aaaand...... AMAZING results in read noise and DR. I will need to use the ASCOM driver anyway with Voyager since they have not developeed the respective native driver for Toputek cameras. So I am all settle here
*whaaaaaaaaaat I have to rerun my sharpcap analysis, thanks for the hint!
Galaxy lucky imaging here I come wohooo!
Almost 16 stops of dynamic range, Touptek has some of the craziest engineers.
Edit: Which driver version are you on?
*the ASCOM driver that Touptek uploaded on their site on Dec 1st
*Ah okay, then it makes sense to me. I only achieved 0.7e read noise in sharp cap with the ASCOM driver, but this was the dll provided by the Touptek ASCOM Setup and it was way older. The separate .dll on their website is newer and a more current version. I will use this and forget about every other .dll from now on  At the moment I can't test the HDR mode in sharp cap because I too have the weird bug, which messes up the measurements. I accidently updated sharpcap and a rollback to an older version does not help either. Regards
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Tobiasz:
At the moment I can't test the HDR mode in sharp cap because I too have the weird bug, which messes up the measurements. I accidently updated sharpcap and a rollback to an older version does not help either. Robin on sharpcap forums contacted touptek about my issues with the HDR mode on the color sensor. And they gave me a new firmware which is not in the website for some reason. It will not work for the mono i guess but all good in my imx585C. https://we.tl/t-ZC8aD9QNi6 |
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Tobiasz:
At the moment I can't test the HDR mode in sharp cap because I too have the weird bug, which messes up the measurements. I accidently updated sharpcap and a rollback to an older version does not help either.
Robin on sharpcap forums contacted touptek about my issues with the HDR mode on the color sensor. And they gave me a new firmware which is not in the website for some reason.
It will not work for the mono i guess but all good in my imx585C.
https://we.tl/t-ZC8aD9QNi6
*eh what the heck, there is still newer firmware on the internet that touptek does not post on their website? When will they learn :-/ Touptek wrote me back and said they will contact the engineering dep. for me. Regarding firmware I would expect that they delivered my mono with the newest firmware version already. But let's see.
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Hmm, I tried out the toupcamx64.dll from the website, exchanged it with all the ones in the NINA/Sharcap/Ascom folders and still get the buggy result with 14,6 stops DR at best. Something's wrong here. What does your .dll's have as a version? When you move the cursor over the dll it displays the version. Mine is 57.27119.0.0.
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