AstroShed:
Oh, so now you have some Interest in this thread, after roasting me for even starting it one here….unbelievable….🤷🏼♂️ I did not like seeing you drop a video, without any good discussion about the topic, and in your second response you just referred back to the video without opening a good dialogue about the topic itself yet again. That reeks of farming views without any real intent to engage on the topic itself. Which is what a discussion forum is about. Some others have joined the discussion and have given some great feedback. Not only about your "hey add extra folders" video, which was a topic in this community 7 years ago (as I linked to earlier), but moreso about engaging with the software and not seeing changes. There are posts from great members of the broader community (such as John Hayes, Jon Rista, and Rob/pfile) that are relevant things to discuss as it pertains to the improvement of the performance of PixInsight. There are also some people throwing tomatoes at me, which is fine. I do not really care too much about that. What I do care about is good honest discussion about the performance of software used by the majority of the Astro community. Had you led into this whole post with that level of engagement and discussion to begin with, I would not even have cared you linked to your video at all. It just came off to me, as look at my video guys and give me likes, moreso than a real genuine discussion about improvements to the performance of PixInsight. HTH, Bill
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
AstroShed:
Oh, so now you have some Interest in this thread, after roasting me for even starting it one here….unbelievable….🤷🏼♂️
I did not like seeing you drop a video, without any good discussion about the topic, and in your second response you just referred back to the video without opening a good dialogue about the topic itself yet again.
That reeks of farming views without any real intent to engage on the topic itself. Which is what a discussion forum is about. Some others have joined the discussion and have given some great feedback. Not only about your "hey add extra folders" video, which was a topic in this community 7 years ago (as I linked to earlier), but moreso about engaging with the software and not seeing changes. There are posts from great members of the broader community (such as John Hayes, Jon Rista, and Rob/pfile) that are relevant things to discuss as it pertains to the improvement of the performance of PixInsight.
There are also some people throwing tomatoes at me, which is fine. I do not really care too much about that. What I do care about is good honest discussion about the performance of software used by the majority of the Astro community.
Had you led into this whole post with that level of engagement and discussion to begin with, I would not even have cared you linked to your video at all. It just came off to me, as look at my video guys and give me likes, moreso than a real genuine discussion about improvements to the performance of PixInsight.
HTH,
Bill Well it shows how wrong you can be, the whole point of the video was to help and posting it here to create discussion, as that interests me, hence why I thanked for the discussions and for seeing people’s results, as that was my intention to see how it worked, or not, for different people, and on the whole it seemed to help more than not, maybe I could have put a bit more meat on the bone to start with, but there was still no need at all to just bash me without even knowing my intentions, that was wrong, and it seems that when certain people that you look up to, then comment you start to get involved, funny that 🤔🤔
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AstroShed:
Well it shows how wrong you can be, the whole point of the video was to help and posting it here to create discussion, as that interests me, hence why I thanked for the discussions and for seeing people’s results, as that was my intention to see how it worked, or not, for different people, and on the whole it seemed to help more than not, maybe I could have put a bit more meat on the bone to start with, but there was still no need at all to just bash me without even knowing my intentions, that was wrong, and it seems that when certain people that you look up to, then comment you start to get involved, funny that 🤔🤔 Without saying too much, there are a number of folks here that I have discussed this with that agree with me. But, at the end of the day, this is not a proving forum of who is right or who is wrong. This is a place to DISCUSS things, and if you would like to discuss the topic itself, as others have done here -- you should do so. You absolutely put no meat on the bone at all in your post, nor your first responses. Maybe do that differently next time and a broader set of people will engage more positively, like the people I respect engaged and upleveled this from look at my video farm, to a real discussion. Shocking result! (sarcasm)
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
AstroShed:
Well it shows how wrong you can be, the whole point of the video was to help and posting it here to create discussion, as that interests me, hence why I thanked for the discussions and for seeing people’s results, as that was my intention to see how it worked, or not, for different people, and on the whole it seemed to help more than not, maybe I could have put a bit more meat on the bone to start with, but there was still no need at all to just bash me without even knowing my intentions, that was wrong, and it seems that when certain people that you look up to, then comment you start to get involved, funny that 🤔🤔
Without saying too much, there are a number of folks here that I have discussed this with that agree with me. But, at the end of the day, this is not a proving forum of who is right or who is wrong. This is a place to DISCUSS things, and if you would like to discuss the topic itself, as others have done here -- you should do so. You absolutely put no meat on the bone at all in your post, nor your first responses. Maybe do that differently next time and a broader set of people will engage more positively, like the people I respect engaged and upleveled this from look at my video farm, to a real discussion.
Shocking result! (sarcasm) No, it’s ok, I am more than happy with the results and discussion already, but thanks for the tips for next time…😂😉
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AstroShed:
No, it’s ok, I am more than happy with the results and discussion already, but thanks for the tips for next time…😂😉 You bet.  I just like rich discussion, and I will leave it at that. It seems this has moved to a much richer discussion about the overall performance of PixInsight, which is a good discussion to have. I feel for the PI team, they have a hard road to go on this one -- but I will say this (which they will not like) but when you develop on a platform that less than 10% of the world uses on a service you expect to get paid for making -- you made a wrong business decision and a good technical decision. The balance of those two, is where they screwed up here IMO. To be more clear: 1. Performance on Linux - Absolutely Dominant 2. Performance on Windows - Clean Dogwater 3. Performance on x86 Macs - Clean Dogwater 4. Performance on Mx Macs - Dirty Dogwater
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
AstroShed:
No, it’s ok, I am more than happy with the results and discussion already, but thanks for the tips for next time…😂😉
You bet.
I just like rich discussion, and I will leave it at that. It seems this has moved to a much richer discussion about the overall performance of PixInsight, which is a good discussion to have. I feel for the PI team, they have a hard road to go on this one -- but I will say this (which they will not like) but when you develop on a platform that less than 10% of the world uses on a service you expect to get paid for making -- you made a wrong business decision and a good technical decision.
The balance of those two, is where they screwed up here IMO.
To be more clear:
1. Performance on Linux - Absolutely Dominant
2. Performance on Windows - Clean Dogwater
3. Performance on x86 Macs - Clean Dogwater
4. Performance on Mx Macs - Dirty Dogwater I used to be a Linux user, a long time ago…but not enough Astro software runs on it, but now I have a pier mounted Windows PC to run my kit, I guess I could move back to a Linux PC in the house, which is my main processing PC….🤔 so every little bit of help people can get on windows is good, I have actually improved mine by another 50% and also ran a proper test on proper data within PI, before and after reconfiguring my swap folders, and the combination I have now, I would not have thought would be better, but it is by a long way.. I have got down to 27 seconds in the benchmark tool from 59, with no more swap folders, but by only using two of my 3 drives with 8 on the main NVME drive and 4 on the second drive, as opposed to 4 on each of my 3 drives…🤔 and in real world tests, this seems to be mostly true…I estimate about 30-40% better than before… so maybe another video on the way…😂😂😂
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AstroShed:
I used to be a Linux user, a long time ago…but not enough Astro software runs on it, but now I have a pier mounted Windows PC to run my kit, I guess I could move back to a Linux PC in the house, which is my main processing PC….🤔
so every little bit of help people can get on windows is good, I have actually improved mine by another 50% and also ran a proper test on proper data within PI, before and after reconfiguring my swap folders, and the combination I have now, I would not have thought would be better, but it is by a long way..
I have got down to 27 seconds in the benchmark tool from 59, with no more swap folders, but by only using two of my 3 drives with 8 on the main NVME drive and 4 on the second drive, as opposed to 4 on each of my 3 drives…🤔 and in real world tests, this seems to be mostly true…I estimate about 30-40% better than before…
so maybe another video on the way…😂😂😂 The truth in real processing change, I have been down this road for years on man. In the days when a sub was 16 megs of data, RAMDisks were all the rage, and they barely moved the needle. The SWAP directory spam, was a mismangement of PI in Windows and they solved this to some degree, but not completely. That and other matters, should make it quite clear that the PI team can only create their incredible product on the Linux platform. Meanwhile thousands of other developers have improved their products based on advancements on the Mac hardware, and on Microsoft's improvements on Windows. PixInight is stuck in the mud because they developed their entire product and service offering on Linux. This is the study many academics I work with on a weekly basis use to prove that Linux is the WORST platform to ever develop on. It is great when you make it, and as you see with PixInsight, it still sucks everywhere else over 10 years later and will never change. APP runs better on Windows and Apple Mx than PI does. PI is ONLY good on Linux and is garbage everwhere else, and they do absolutely nothing about it, because they dont care enough to put the work in. They are happy to take 300 euro a pop from you all, and wont spend a dime on that to modernize the software at all on real platforms that real people use. -Bill
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You have Gradient Correction as a process in PixInsight, before you got good Windows and Mac code…. Just think about why that would be.
They are getting beat at things in the market (and thus care) and fix it on Linux and leave the rest of the platform to rot away.
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Also…
Where is Juan? Hiding out?
Note: I did sent a notice to the AG of the State of WA on this matter. That is all I will say.
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
They are happy to take 300 euro a pop from you all, and wont spend a dime on that to modernize the software at all on real platforms that real people use. In defense of PixInsight - while they charge us 300 euros, it is a one time payment, not a subscription. So what I suspect is happening is that new purchases are paying for basic maintenance, whereas if they went to a subscription model, they'd have the funds to develop and invest in new features. Keep in mind that BXT, NXT, SXT all come at a price and are not free. In reference to the performance of PixInsight - I think for many (possibly most?) of us, the performance of PI is not a huge problem. The AI tools are plenty fast using GPU acceleration, and I can set up WBPP and go out and mow the lawn. The other parts of processing are much more limited by me than by CPU speed. Now, my use case is a backyard observer who uses relatively small sensors and may be crank out an image a month. I can completely see how this could be different if you are a more serious imager with large cameras and many more images to process. But what portion of the market is this? The point here is that PI satisfies a significant majority of the market. Its flaws, while real, do not meaningfully matter to many of us. And while someone may come up with better software, the barrier to learning something new and the small number of people who would pay for the benefit of increased performance probably does not justify such a development.
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Arun H:
In reference to the performance of PixInsight - I think for many (possibly most?) of us, the performance of PI is not a huge problem Because you have not A/B the performance of the software on Linux. Please do that and come back and tell us what you learned. Telling me you mow your lawn while it runs, is interesting. Lets see how much of your lawn gets mowed on both platforms. Saying the performance is not of interest to people, is clearly against what the people here are saying. They want it to be faster. Did you read this thread?
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Because you have not A/B the performance on the software on Linux. Please do that and come back and tell us what you learned. I am not questioning that the performance of PI on Linux is much better, nor disputing that some would benefit from a PI performance increase. I am simply stating that, for most of us, the current performance of PixInsight on Windows is not a significant restriction.
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Arun H:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Because you have not A/B the performance on the software on Linux. Please do that and come back and tell us what you learned.
I am not questioning that the performance of PI on Linux is much better, nor disputing that some would benefit from a PI performance increase. I am simply stating that, for most of us, the current performance of PixInsight on Windows is not a significant restriction. No, you are making a terrible claim that people do not care about the performance, because they can just mow their lawn. How about using software that works so well you cannot even start your lawnmower before it finishes? The idea that the performance of PI is not a restriction, with all due respect to you Arun, is ignorant.
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
No, you are making a terrible claim that people do not care about the performance, because they can just mow their lawn. How about using software that works so well you cannot even start your lawnmower before it finishes? It would not matter meaningfully to me, and I suspect, to many others. If it did, there would be a market for faster software! As I stated, it is a point of view, and I have freely stated that it may not be shared by others!
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Saying the performance is not of interest to people, is clearly against what the people here are saying. They want it to be faster. I believe we both agree that some people would benefit from a performance increase. This I made clear in the following statement in my original response: I can completely see how this could be different if you are a more serious imager with large cameras and many more images to process. But what portion of the market is this? And I absolutely do not dispute that some of the posters in this thread would benefit. But (and I don't think I am wrong here), what percent of the market are the people in this thread complaining about the performance? If there truly was a large segment of people frustrated with how slow PI is, enough to pay and learn new software, someone would develop it. Of if there is equivalent software today that is faster, the people unsatisfied with PI would use that instead.
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Arun H:
If it did, there would be a market for faster software! Why did they release Gradient Correction, and ignore everything else on the platform that was in disarray?
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Arun H:
If it did, there would be a market for faster software!
Why did they release Gradient Correction, and ignore everything else on the platform that was in disarray? Because it is innovative and as their developers claim, it will be used in conjunction with the data from the MARS project?
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
The idea that the performance of PI is not a restriction, with all due respect to you Arun, is ignorant. Hi Bill, You edited your original post to add the above statement. I will simply respond that, it is entirely up to me to decide what does and does not constitute a restriction to me. I believe I have also stated that that may not be the case for others. I am humble enough to acknowledge this. Where we differ is in our opinions on the percent of users for whom this restriction is meaningful. Because this number dictates the justification for new software development (or that for PI moving to a different model that may result in faster software). Neither of us has provided actual data to support a business case. I'd say that makes neither of our ideas ignorant. Or maybe both equally ignorant! In the end, just opinions that are respectfully shared in an online discussion  I'll add that there may be additional options worth considering for Juan - such as a "Pro" version that has a different pricing structure. Once again, this will be market dependent. I would personally not pay for such a version, but acknowledge that there are others who might.
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
No, you are making a terrible claim that people do not care about the performance, because they can just mow their lawn. How about using software that works so well you cannot even start your lawnmower before it finishes?
The idea that the performance of PI is not a restriction, with all due respect to you Arun, is ignorant. I get that you seem to enjoy Linux, but being as rude as Torvalds is maybe a bit too much advocacy for the platform...
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Jean-David Gadina:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
No, you are making a terrible claim that people do not care about the performance, because they can just mow their lawn. How about using software that works so well you cannot even start your lawnmower before it finishes?
The idea that the performance of PI is not a restriction, with all due respect to you Arun, is ignorant.
I get that you seem to enjoy Linux, but being as rude as Torvalds is maybe a bit too much advocacy for the platform... I dont enjoy Linux at all and worked for Microsoft for over 20 years. Built some of the greatest services that make peoples lives awesome, like Office 365.
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Jean-David Gadina:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
No, you are making a terrible claim that people do not care about the performance, because they can just mow their lawn. How about using software that works so well you cannot even start your lawnmower before it finishes?
The idea that the performance of PI is not a restriction, with all due respect to you Arun, is ignorant.
I get that you seem to enjoy Linux, but being as rude as Torvalds is maybe a bit too much advocacy for the platform...
I dont enjoy Linux at all and worked for Microsoft for over 20 years. Built some of the greatest services that make peoples lives awesome, like Office 365. Good for you. You do know how to ruin a forum so you have another specialty.
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Dan Kearl:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Jean-David Gadina:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
No, you are making a terrible claim that people do not care about the performance, because they can just mow their lawn. How about using software that works so well you cannot even start your lawnmower before it finishes?
The idea that the performance of PI is not a restriction, with all due respect to you Arun, is ignorant.
I get that you seem to enjoy Linux, but being as rude as Torvalds is maybe a bit too much advocacy for the platform...
I dont enjoy Linux at all and worked for Microsoft for over 20 years. Built some of the greatest services that make peoples lives awesome, like Office 365.
Good for you.
You do know how to ruin a forum so you have another specialty. 😂😂😂😂 love it, well said @Dan Kearlit amazes me how this idiot moans, and says he wants a proper discussion, and when he gets different opinions, he then trashes them because they are different, what a complete idiot this guy is, he has done nothing but trash the fact I even put this video on here, and now he trashes other peoples views and opinions….and just because he is one of the forum sponsors, he thinks its ok to act like this, @Dark Matters Astrophotography why don’t you just leave the thread, as you are clearly here for one reason only, I’m amazed with your attitude you still have a business to run….
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Oh, and when he is not trashing others posts and opinions, he is trashing pixinsight and the Devs who work hard to produce it…..go figure, he obviously has some issues, it’s a shame I guess….
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Attention all,
I typically avoid closing discussions, but this one has escalated beyond control.
A reminder: you may disagree with opinions, but disrespecting individuals is unacceptable.
Name-calling is not tolerated on AstroBin. Further offenses will result in account suspension.
Given the heated nature of this topic, it will be closed.
Thank you for your understanding.
Salvatore
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