I would very much like to stop the back and forth and offer a service to the OP and future readers.
I am a long term user and supporter of Voyager and its development, I do not believe suspending users from forums for asking for help is a sane and constructive way of aiding paying customers.
I will be investigating and using NINA and I am available to help others with it, just ask.
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Some people would open their mouse but forget to turn on their brains…. Everything on any forum could be used in the courts, this is why lawyers drive Mercedes or Porshe and these idiots - old Chrysler  Salvatore, I would not start over the battle, just relax  Happy Labor Day to everybody!
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Eddie Pons:
I stopped using V. when I mentioned in a forum that a particular piece of gear didn't seem to work with the software - it was a request for assistance - and I was thrown off the support forum for spreading misinformation. Hi Eddie. This exact thing just happened to me on the Voyager forum. Leo basically threw me off the forum for asking a legitimate question about equipment compatibility. He then said that the support was for other equipment which is ridiculous because it's asking about compatibility between that equipment and his software. Such a basic lack of understanding.
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yup, it is a very unfortunate behavior.
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These Voyager discussions irresistibly remind me of Seinfeld 😀: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1jSTiKHOFEI |
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Arun H:
These Voyager discussions irresistibly remind me of Seinfeld 😀:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1jSTiKHOFEI Totally. I’ve been using online forums since Compuserve. You guys remember that? That’s like from 1984 and today is the first time I was banned on a support forum for asking a genuine question in a civil manner. LOL. Well NINA here I come. Gotta start learning from scratch. Anyone have a tutorial on what I have to do to replicate or better Voyager Advanced using NINA?
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I recommend Chris Woodhouse's tutorials on his Youtube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@astroshed/videosp.s: I am back to all night multi-target imaging with NINA. I completely replace V.
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I read many of the threads - here my personal view after several months using Voyager and NINA for years:
1. Voyager is not suitable for someone who wants to change some components (cameras, filtersets, barlows) more than "once a year" - the setup should be more or less carved in stone.
2. Voyager is not optimized for a lets-see how it looks today - you cannot (easily) alter targets, positions, combinations etc.
3. The focus must be already very very good to get results from the built-in AF system
4. The entire set-up must be very well thought-through and tested (with other SW) to avoid running into problems
5. In the forum do not dare to ask a question - you are thrown out, as it happened to me
6. Leo´s attitude is like: I am the best you are an i….d..t - at least that is the impression, I got. I must admit, I am 76 and not a computer freak, I am a user who wants to get fine astrphotographs. But - to be fair, he responds very reliably and quickly. Often, I do not understand his language
7. Many of the tutorials are not really educational - one can see and hear, that he has no idea of teaching ( I am a retired professor for Physics)
8. Many parameters are strange regarding their denomination, settings and possiblities to change them (A OSC camera with a contrast filter needs to classed as mono camera with a imaginary filter wheel - no option for a manual filter wheel)
Do I use Voyager - yes, sometimes, why?
1. It is working and working and never ever crashed
2. It is very reliable regarding performance (if it worked) of AF and recentering
3. Would I recommend Voyager to others - only if they almost never plan to change their system components and have tested them intensively
Well, that´s my poist of view
Cheers
Georg
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Arun H:
These Voyager discussions irresistibly remind me of Seinfeld 😀:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1jSTiKHOFEI
Totally. I’ve been using online forums since Compuserve. You guys remember that? That’s like from 1984 and today is the first time I was banned on a support forum for asking a genuine question in a civil manner. LOL.
Well NINA here I come. Gotta start learning from scratch. Anyone have a tutorial on what I have to do to replicate or better Voyager Advanced using NINA?
Same happened to me a week ago - I was asking a question into the forum and was banned because I asked a question and got an email from Leo that it is not allowed to ask a question in a forum - that is support and I have to ask him personally... well, well.... Sforza Italia?
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Hey Rafael!
I have been using NINA for about 2.5 years with my remote scope. I have also used Voyager for a short period prior to NINA. What I didn't originally like about Voyager was that the live viewing of photos being captured was not as well organized as NINA; I would open up subs in a different program just to view them. NINA has a nice integrated window for viewing subs, stats, etc. which I like. However, I've heard that Voyager Advanced is much improved and has all the capabilities of NINA, and is better for running perpetual scripts. This can be done in NINA but is clunky, and I'm thinking of paying for the new version of Voyager.
Jonas
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C. Jonas Moiel:
Hey Rafael!
I have been using NINA for about 2.5 years with my remote scope. I have also used Voyager for a short period prior to NINA. What I didn't originally like about Voyager was that the live viewing of photos being captured was not as well organized as NINA; I would open up subs in a different program just to view them. NINA has a nice integrated window for viewing subs, stats, etc. which I like. However, I've heard that Voyager Advanced is much improved and has all the capabilities of NINA, and is better for running perpetual scripts. This can be done in NINA but is clunky, and I'm thinking of paying for the new version of Voyager.
Jonas I used to run Voyager Advanced for 24/7/365 automation of two piers in my observatory. I now run NINA with the Target Scheduler plugin which performs the same role as RoboTarget in Voyager Advanced. It is not clunky. Georg N. Nyman:
I read many of the threads - here my personal view after several months using Voyager and NINA for years:
1. Voyager is not suitable for someone who wants to change some components (cameras, filtersets, barlows) more than "once a year" - the setup should be more or less carved in stone.
2. Voyager is not optimized for a lets-see how it looks today - you cannot (easily) alter targets, positions, combinations etc.
3. The focus must be already very very good to get results from the built-in AF system
4. The entire set-up must be very well thought-through and tested (with other SW) to avoid running into problems
5. In the forum do not dare to ask a question - you are thrown out, as it happened to me
6. Leo´s attitude is like: I am the best you are an i....d..t - at least that is the impression, I got. I must admit, I am 76 and not a computer freak, I am a user who wants to get fine astrphotographs. But - to be fair, he responds very reliably and quickly. Often, I do not understand his language
7. Many of the tutorials are not really educational - one can see and hear, that he has no idea of teaching ( I am a retired professor for Physics)
8. Many parameters are strange regarding their denomination, settings and possiblities to change them (A OSC camera with a contrast filter needs to classed as mono camera with a imaginary filter wheel - no option for a manual filter wheel)
Do I use Voyager - yes, sometimes, why?
1. It is working and working and never ever crashed
2. It is very reliable regarding performance (if it worked) of AF and recentering
3. Would I recommend Voyager to others - only if they almost never plan to change their system components and have tested them intensively
Well, that´s my poist of view
Cheers
Georg 1. I don't see any real difference between Voyager and NINA in this respect. 2. You'd want to use the On The Fly mode in Voyager for this. 3. This was not my experience, I'd say the Voyager autofocus is the strongest aspect of the core featureset and the place where I think Voyager has a distinct advantage over NINA. 4. True, but this is true generally. You could use the on the fly mode in Voyager to set things up, but it isn't as easy as doing it via some other means, you're correct. NINA is more flexible in this regard and makes it easier to go from 0 to fully functional within one program. 5. True. 6. I have had the same experience. 7. I'll not comment on the quality of the teaching, but I will say that the documentation is not as good as NINA's generally, which is surprising since generally open source has a weakness in documentation for more niche applications like NINA that don't have giant teams of developers working on them. 8. I agree this is a weakness of the application and it relates back to the "my way or the highway" design philosophy. So you can see that I feel there are plusses and minuses. I had two NINA Advanced systems plus a remote safety license and master NINA system previously. I now run NINA with Target Scheduler exclusively after running one pier on each for about 6 months to compare. The recent release of Target Scheduler plugin v5 has only made that system even better.
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@Kyle Goodwin For #3 he may be referring to the fact that AF will fail after like 14 sample points in the V-curve. That was an annoyance for me as my scope would drift far enough during the day that the first AF of the seq would fail and halt the entire session. I was able to band-aid this by having the focuser move to a static position before the first AF and that usually put it close enough to the CFZ but its still an annoyance. NINA on the other hand will run as many samples as needed to finish the curve.
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Reg Pratt:
@Kyle Goodwin For #3 he may be referring to the fact that AF will fail after like 14 sample points in the V-curve. That was an annoyance for me as my scope would drift far enough during the day that the first AF of the seq would fail and halt the entire session. I was able to band-aid this by having the focuser move to a static position before the first AF and that usually put it close enough to the CFZ but its still an annoyance. NINA on the other hand will run as many samples as needed to finish the curve. Is this using the full field method or the single star method? Sorry I forget the Voyager names for them. I always used the single star method with excellent results and I wish NINA had an equivalent.
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I only ever used local field because I saw no reason to waste time slewing to a star when AF could be run in place. I'm not sure if the sample point limit exists in robofire (single star)
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Reg Pratt:
I only ever used local field because I saw no reason to waste time slewing to a star when AF could be run in place. I'm not sure if the sample point limit exists in robofire (single star) It's more time to slew, but the autofocus is extremely fast. It takes a very small number of images with a small RoI (so fast download time) and the images are very short exposures, even at long focal length because it's always an appropriately bright star. In my testing with an encoder mount or an accurate enough pointing model that it doesn't need to plate solve out and back it's always faster to use the single star method. If you need to plate solve on the way back then it was faster for narrowband (where the autofocus exposures for local field would be longer), but slightly slower for broadband.
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I'm not saying its bad I'm just saying I found no reason to ever try it. Local field worked perfectly once I realized it will fail if it exceed a certain number if samples. Once that was sorted it never failed again. I also used filter offsets so I only ever focused with L which was very fast.
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C. Jonas Moiel:
Hey Rafael!
I have been using NINA for about 2.5 years with my remote scope. I have also used Voyager for a short period prior to NINA. What I didn't originally like about Voyager was that the live viewing of photos being captured was not as well organized as NINA; I would open up subs in a different program just to view them. NINA has a nice integrated window for viewing subs, stats, etc. which I like. However, I've heard that Voyager Advanced is much improved and has all the capabilities of NINA, and is better for running perpetual scripts. This can be done in NINA but is clunky, and I'm thinking of paying for the new version of Voyager.
Jonas Hi Jonas! Thank you! 😊
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Kyle Goodwin:
C. Jonas Moiel:
Hey Rafael!
I have been using NINA for about 2.5 years with my remote scope. I have also used Voyager for a short period prior to NINA. What I didn't originally like about Voyager was that the live viewing of photos being captured was not as well organized as NINA; I would open up subs in a different program just to view them. NINA has a nice integrated window for viewing subs, stats, etc. which I like. However, I've heard that Voyager Advanced is much improved and has all the capabilities of NINA, and is better for running perpetual scripts. This can be done in NINA but is clunky, and I'm thinking of paying for the new version of Voyager.
Jonas
I used to run Voyager Advanced for 24/7/365 automation of two piers in my observatory. I now run NINA with the Target Scheduler plugin which performs the same role as RoboTarget in Voyager Advanced. It is not clunky.
Georg N. Nyman:
I read many of the threads - here my personal view after several months using Voyager and NINA for years:
1. Voyager is not suitable for someone who wants to change some components (cameras, filtersets, barlows) more than "once a year" - the setup should be more or less carved in stone.
2. Voyager is not optimized for a lets-see how it looks today - you cannot (easily) alter targets, positions, combinations etc.
3. The focus must be already very very good to get results from the built-in AF system
4. The entire set-up must be very well thought-through and tested (with other SW) to avoid running into problems
5. In the forum do not dare to ask a question - you are thrown out, as it happened to me
6. Leo´s attitude is like: I am the best you are an i....d..t - at least that is the impression, I got. I must admit, I am 76 and not a computer freak, I am a user who wants to get fine astrphotographs. But - to be fair, he responds very reliably and quickly. Often, I do not understand his language
7. Many of the tutorials are not really educational - one can see and hear, that he has no idea of teaching ( I am a retired professor for Physics)
8. Many parameters are strange regarding their denomination, settings and possiblities to change them (A OSC camera with a contrast filter needs to classed as mono camera with a imaginary filter wheel - no option for a manual filter wheel)
Do I use Voyager - yes, sometimes, why?
1. It is working and working and never ever crashed
2. It is very reliable regarding performance (if it worked) of AF and recentering
3. Would I recommend Voyager to others - only if they almost never plan to change their system components and have tested them intensively
Well, that´s my poist of view
Cheers
Georg
1. I don't see any real difference between Voyager and NINA in this respect.
2. You'd want to use the On The Fly mode in Voyager for this.
3. This was not my experience, I'd say the Voyager autofocus is the strongest aspect of the core featureset and the place where I think Voyager has a distinct advantage over NINA.
4. True, but this is true generally. You could use the on the fly mode in Voyager to set things up, but it isn't as easy as doing it via some other means, you're correct. NINA is more flexible in this regard and makes it easier to go from 0 to fully functional within one program.
5. True.
6. I have had the same experience.
7. I'll not comment on the quality of the teaching, but I will say that the documentation is not as good as NINA's generally, which is surprising since generally open source has a weakness in documentation for more niche applications like NINA that don't have giant teams of developers working on them.
8. I agree this is a weakness of the application and it relates back to the "my way or the highway" design philosophy.
So you can see that I feel there are plusses and minuses. I had two NINA Advanced systems plus a remote safety license and master NINA system previously. I now run NINA with Target Scheduler exclusively after running one pier on each for about 6 months to compare. The recent release of Target Scheduler plugin v5 has only made that system even better. How did you replicate the watchdog processes? If your mount turns off tracking for some strange reason, will a watchdog jump in and fix the issue? If guiding error exceeds a threshold will it recalibrate the guider and get the sequence back on track? If the focus result is poor will it run the focus a set number of times to make sure that issue is resolved?
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
How did you replicate the watchdog processes? If your mount turns off tracking for some strange reason, will a watchdog jump in and fix the issue? If guiding error exceeds a threshold will it recalibrate the guider and get the sequence back on track? If the focus result is poor will it run the focus a set number of times to make sure that issue is resolved? Here's how to replicate Watchdogs in NINA: Conditional Trigger (Powerups plugin) - set a condition for whatever you want to ensure stays true (tracking, etc.) and then in the action do whatever is needed to make it go again if it fails (reconnect the mount, restart tracking, whatever) There are already some built in things like this like the "resume guiding" trigger which will always ensure guiding is running Yes, you can use the Interrupt When RMS Above (PHD2 plugin) trigger to handle the guiding case. Yes, you can configure autofocus to rerun if the result is bad (based on worse than initial check image or poor curve fit) and you can set how many times to retry and what to do if it's still a problem after that number of retries or if it times out. This is true of all instructions.
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Hi,
it is my understanding that Voyager uses many native drivers instead of relying on ascom only.
Am I correct?
If so, did someone noted some advantages?
thank you
riccardo
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Riccardo A. Ballerini:
Hi,
it is my understanding that Voyager uses many native drivers instead of relying on ascom only.
Am I correct?
If so, did someone noted some advantages?
thank you
riccardo It's pretty similar to NINA in that regard. It has native drivers for lots of common equipment and also supports ASCOM generally for things it doesn't have native drivers for. Native drivers are definitely more performant than ASCOM for cameras due to the way the ASCOM Camera interface is defined, but computers are fast enough these days it generally doesn't make a huge difference. I prefer using the native drivers and use them for whatever I can whether it's Voyager, NINA, PHD2 etc., but I still also use a lot of ASCOM drivers and have no particular issue with them (ASCOM is generally a great framework).
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