Flats undercorrecting in LRGB [Deep Sky] Processing techniques · Adam Drake · ... · 9 · 160 · 3

ngc1977 2.11
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Been puzzling for years over why my flats taken with my ASI533MM-Pro / LRGB filters do not completely correct vignetting pattern.  I've had the same problem using other cameras and other telescopes; the only constant is the filters, and regardless of any flaws in them, flats should still calibrate out. 

Here is a sample single R sub, stretched (fairly hard) to show the vignetting.
stretched_sub.png
Here is the master flat, stretched to show that the uneven light distribution is present in my flats.
stretched_flat.png
And the end resulting integrated stack, showing that some of the vignetting remains.
stretched_integration.png

I'm getting the same issue in my other filters in the LRGB set.  My narrowband flats work flawlessly.  Capture is done with NINA (flat wizard) and stacked in Astro Pixel Processor.  There is no condensation or frost anywhere in the optical train during the capture of my lights or flats.  Individual flats taken at a fairly short exposure (FITS header says 0.07 sec) and I wonder if the sensor response at that short of an exposure is consistent with a longer exposure, creating a mismatch.

What might I be missing??
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andreatax 9.89
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Normally, it would be a light leak of some sort (by light leak we mean an additive source of illumination, not necessarily a factual leak). If the only constant is the filters then one possibility is that the edges of the filters reflect some light back into the optical train (and it would do it differently between flats and light exposures, saying just to preempt confusion).
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ngc1977 2.11
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andrea tasselli:
Normally, it would be a light leak of some sort (by light leak we mean an additive source of illumination, not necessarily a factual leak). If the only constant is the filters then one possibility is that the edges of the filters reflect some light back into the optical train (and it would do it differently between flats and light exposures, saying just to preempt confusion).

Something to keep in mind, and it might be worth trying a dimmer light source for that reason.  Though plenty of people do just fine with filtered daylight flats...  I'd like to think that my troubles with flats ended when I parted with my last ASI294 model.
Edited ...
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jhayes_tucson 26.84
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Flat correction requires a number of conditions to work well.  First, you can’t have additive stray light—as Andrea pointed out.  Second, you have to be operating with linear signals.  I have never taken flats with such a short exposure and I have to wonder if that might be at least a part of the problem.   Have you tried a longer exposure?   The shortest that I ever used is about 3s and I try to get the peak of the histogram to be between 66% and 75% of saturation.  Third, you cannot have too much vignetting.  Flats can correct up to about 50% vignetting but beyond that, you can start to have serious problems.  You can tell if you have way too much vignetting if the flat histogram is fairly broad.  A properly configured system will produce a flat with a pretty narrow histogram.  Just based on what you’ve shown, it doesn’t look like you’ve got too much vignetting so I doubt that is the problem.

Beyond that, your code may not be configured with the right parameters to work properly.  For example, PI has a number of options that if checked, can really screw things up.  How are you performing the calibration?

John
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ngc1977 2.11
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John Hayes:
Flat correction requires a number of conditions to work well.  First, you can’t have additive stray light—as Andrea pointed out.  Second, you have to be operating with linear signals.  I have never taken flats with such a short exposure and I have to wonder if that might be at least a part of the problem.   Have you tried a longer exposure?   The shortest that I ever used is about 3s and I try to get the peak of the histogram to be between 66% and 75% of saturation.  Third, you cannot have too much vignetting.  Flats can correct up to about 50% vignetting but beyond that, you can start to have serious problems.  You can tell if you have way too much vignetting if the flat histogram is fairly broad.  A properly configured system will produce a flat with a pretty narrow histogram.  Just based on what you’ve shown, it doesn’t look like you’ve got too much vignetting so I doubt that is the problem.

Beyond that, your code may not be configured with the right parameters to work properly.  For example, PI has a number of options that if checked, can really screw things up.  How are you performing the calibration?

John

I've used the default Calibration settings in AstroPixelProcessor for years without any issues on most of my other scope/camera/filter combinations.  I'm leaning towards trying PI for stacking, just to take the app out of the troubleshooting equation.  However I've stacked the same data with DSS and gotten similar results.

As for taking flats, I agree that the next step is to try longer exposures.  I recall from my days struggling with getting my light source  both dim and bright enough for my 294 series cameras' need for 3-second-plus exposures, and I'm not looking forward to dealing with that again if that is indeed the issue.

Also, my actual vignetting is quite small; as I'm sure you know the stretching greatly exaggerates it.  The scope used in this capture is made to cover full-frame cameras, so one as relatively small as the ASI533 poses no challenge there.
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ngc1977 2.11
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It might be more useful to troubleshoot after I get a fresh set of RGB subs and matching flat frames.  I only tend to keep masters.
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jhayes_tucson 26.84
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Adam Drake:
I've used the default Calibration settings in AstroPixelProcessor for years without any issues on most of my other scope/camera/filter combinations.  I'm leaning towards trying PI for stacking, just to take the app out of the troubleshooting equation.  However I've stacked the same data with DSS and gotten similar results.

As for taking flats, I agree that the next step is to try longer exposures.  I recall from my days struggling with getting my light source  both dim and bright enough for my 294 series cameras' need for 3-second-plus exposures, and I'm not looking forward to dealing with that again if that is indeed the issue.

Also, my actual vignetting is quite small; as I'm sure you know the stretching greatly exaggerates it.  The scope used in this capture is made to cover full-frame cameras, so one as relatively small as the ASI533 poses no challenge there.

This is why I use a flat panel.  It’s far easier and more controllable than sky flats.

John
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ngc1977 2.11
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John Hayes:
This is why I use a flat panel. It’s far easier and more controllable than sky flats.


I use a panel as well, though I'd love to find one with a more useful range of brightness.
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andreatax 9.89
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As you are using a 533 the shortness of the flat exposure isn't really a concern although to be quite honest mine are somewhat longer than 0.07s on average but not by much.
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jhayes_tucson 26.84
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Adam Drake:
John Hayes:
This is why I use a flat panel. It’s far easier and more controllable than sky flats.


I use a panel as well, though I'd love to find one with a more useful range of brightness.

LED based panels are better in this regard than EL based panels.

John
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