What's the canonical focuser upgrade for a C8 + Starizona SCTCORRV? [Deep Sky] Acquisition techniques · John Stone · ... · 8 · 204 · 0

kevinkiller 2.11
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I have a C8 and an EAF on the focuser that moves the  mirror.   I've read that many people stop using that focuser and instead install a drawtube style focuser.   I'm not sure what the benefits would be for doing that?  The C8 does not have mirror locks like the Edge does.  (Do you drill/tap locking bolts to the mirror cell somehow?)

If I wanted to give it a try what's the standard/canonical/works-every-time-but-doesn't-break-your-wallet (I'm looking at you Primaluce) focuser for a mono APS-C setup?

What ever focuser I get it has to have a drawtube large enough the insert the SCTCORRV into and have a threaded connection that I can use one of these Starizona adapters to screw it down.

https://starizona.com/products/apexed-threaded-focuser-adapter
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kevinkiller 2.11
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Anyone?
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andreatax 9.89
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Any decent Crayford will do, take your pick depending on the depth of your wallet.
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kevinkiller 2.11
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Thanks.  Can you point to a couple links here in the US?

also, what’s the real improvement if the C8 doesn’t have mirror locks?
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andreatax 9.89
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What's your budget? A Moonlite would be nice but can you afford it?

Mirror shift/flop occurs whenever you move the primary. Leaving it alone ensures that this doesn't happen. Also in can keep your best focus position regardless of the optical train you have.
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kevinkiller 2.11
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I though that the mirror was loose/floppy as a result of the design of how it focuses by moving the big mirror up and down a baffle tube.  I'm thinking it would still shift/flop around as my telescope pointed at different places in the sky (especially after a meridian flip), right?

If this is the case why do so many people put on draw-tube focusers?  What does that improve unless you somehow tap/drill your own set of mirror locks and set them after moving the primary mirror the optimal distance from the secondary that minimizes spherical aberrations?

Speaking of which, has anyone ever made their own mirror lock system for an SCT?  That would really make a lot of sense to me.   I wonder if there's a how-to guide to doing that somewhere.

Thanks for you help and replies.
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Xeebok 4.77
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The locks help keep the mirror in place so it doesn't move as you adjust your telescope, but you can achieve sort of  the same result by finishing your focus with an anticlockwise motion. This ensures there's always pressure on the mirror, keeping it stable.As for external focusers, there's an inherent issue with the SCT's focusing mechanism design: each time you change focus, the mirror shifts. This issue becomes more pronounced during autofocus runs, and it can completely throw off your focus. By manually focusing and ending with an anticlockwise motion, the mirror stays put. You can then use the EAF on the external focuser to make small adjustments throughout the imaging session, as SCTs are very sensitive to temperature changes.Hope this helps!

Cs
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kevinkiller 2.11
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Ahmed,

Let me see if I understand correctly; 

1.)  You can mitigate the wobbly SCT mirror by finishing focus with an anti-clockwise turn which takes up the backlash in the focusing mechanism against gravity and (mostly) holds the mirror from wobbling around during slews/meridian flips.

2.)  Moving the SCT focus knob during an EAF (or manual) focus run can cause the SCT mirror to shift/wobble a little bit, but by following #1 you can "pseudo-lock" the mirrors new wobbled position at the end of focus, then by using a draw-tube focuser you can avoid changing this now "pseudo-locked" mirror position for fine focus adjustments (like filter offsets).

3.)  During autofocus the EAF will make a large clockwise turn of the focuser followed by a series of small steps anti-clockwise to create a focus curve, then after finding the bottom of the focus curve will make another large clockwise turn, followed by an anti-clockwise "black-lash compensation" turn which can "pseduo-lock" the mirror in a different orientation which actually isn't the new focus point because of the wobble.

In NINA the focus routine does exactly as described in #3 and could miss the actual focus point because it changed because of the wobble during the back-lash compensation step;

But what what about a focus routine like the one in the ASIAIR that does two focus runs:  a larger first one to find the approximate focus point, followed by another smaller one to discover the actual focus point.   In this case do you still believe an external focuser would be required?

The critical focus zone on a F10 (or F7 reduced) SCT is pretty large.  Due you think the shifting mirror during the NINA-like final focus move be large enough to shift it out of the critical focus zone?   Is there a way to actually tell if this is happening?

This also begs the question:   How do the RASA scopes overcome this limitation?  There is no place to attach an external focuser there so they only rely on moving the main mirror.

So my take away is if you're a mono-imager then you'll have to do a complete ASIAIR style focus run after changing each filter, you can't do filter offsets unless you buy a drawtube focuser.

If you're a OSC with an ASI then perhaps you can avoid the draw-tube focuser?

Is there a particular test you can do to see if your EAF is missing the "real" focus point because of the mirror shift/wobble?

Thanks for all your help.
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Xeebok 4.77
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Hey John,

I want to clarify upfront that I’m not an expert, but I’m explaining this based on my personal experience and understanding. One distinction I’d like to make is that I’m referring to image shift caused by the focusing mechanism, not mirror flop. Mirror flop which sometimes is due to other issues, and is sometimes used to describe image shift (it's so confusing) ... 

1- yes that’s correct, the wobble is sort of mitigated that way yes. 
2- again your understanding is correct
3-depending on the focus routine yes, if your focus routine finishes with a clockwise motion then it will also be prone to changes based on position.

I don’t know about Asiair, but with Nina you  have much more controls, having a very large backlash compensation helps with this issue as well as changing the direction of the compensation. 

That being said, having an external focuser is not in anyway a must, people image without them all the time, the idea generally is to streamline the process and make it more precise and consistent. 

Im not sure if there is a documented method to test, I have a C6 and Edge HD8 , and you can see the stars jump out of position with the smallest movement. Getting autofocus runs working was a pain.

during an imaging night, you will have to run several focus runs wheathr you are using mono or OSC and both can be affected, all be it its more complex with mono. 

I cannot answer about rasa, I have no idea if they share the same focusing mechanism or have they improved it somehow.

You can watch James Lamb’s videos on how to dial in your sct autofus if you really want to get into the details.
You can also check this link from agena astro on the topic.


CS
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