Hello all! Recently one of my images received expressive votes from the NTP and TP instances before IOTD, giving me expectations that my image would be selected. I got more likes than I usually get and I thought this indicated that the photo in fact had potential - mostly because of the Ha blend that, as far as I know, isn't common for this region. However, my image stayed as is in the TP instance, leaving me wondering what made the judges not selecting it. What could improve so next time it has higher chances of being IOTD? https://www.astrobin.com/x1tat3/  I appreciate critique only - please do not make texts talking about that I should not care.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
One IOTD judge had a bit of heartburn that afternoon which slightly affected their mental state towards voting for another great image which went on to win for the day.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Where's the "dislike" button when you need it and why is it the judges responsibility to tell you what you're doing wrong? You didn't get the IOTD award so what. For goodness sakes, submit your images and move on.
Mike
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Mike H - Sky View Observatory:
Where's the "dislike" button when you need it and why is it the judges responsibility to tell you what you're doing wrong? You didn't get the IOTD award so what. For goodness sakes, submit your images and move on.
Mike Wow. I'm now wondering why my request for critique made you so uncomfortable. Maybe you should move on?
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
This feels like a thinly-veiled attempt to make yet another thread criticizing the selection Judges. Your image is beautiful, no doubt… but there are so many other beautiful TP and TPN images which also weren't selected.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Brad T:
This feels like a thinly-veiled attempt to make yet another thread criticizing the selection Judges. Your image is beautiful, no doubt... but there are so many other beautiful TP and TPN images which also weren't selected. Since we don't get any feedback from judges, I decided to ask the community. I'm asking for real, maybe I don't see where I could improve and others do.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
as for a critique, only 3 things come to my mind: 1. watermark is too attention-grabbing - it's too opaque 2. framing is a bit strange; it looks like you want to show something else a little bit to the right, but there's not much there; perhaps center the globular next time 3. just choose a more exotic target altogether everything else is perfect to me you must also consider that it's possible some other image had a more interesting object at the time, and maybe that's why it's not IOTD I wont say that you should not care about IOTD, but the amount of people who are talking about IOTD is getting a little out of control  |
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
I've noticed a genuine desire to assert your views and highlight your qualities — which is totally understandable. I’d just gently suggest reflecting on whether, at times, that impulse might be taking up a bit more space than needed in conversations. A bit more balance could make the exchanges even more enriching and pleasant for everyone.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
I did move on by hitting the unsubscribe button.
Mike
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Oscar:
as for a critique, only 3 things come to my mind:
1. watermark is too attention-grabbing - it's too opaque
2. framing is a bit strange; it looks like you want to show something else a little bit to the right, but there's not much there; perhaps center the globular next time
3. just choose a more exotic target altogether
everything else is perfect to me
you must also consider that it's possible some other image had a more interesting object at the time, and maybe that's why it's not IOTD
I wont say that you should not care about IOTD, but the amount of people who are talking about IOTD is getting a little out of control  1. Good to know about the watermark. I never thought it could deviate attention. 2. I wanted to frame the dim dust on the right, that's why it's slightly offset. I'm not sure if framing this way was a little bit too much... Thanks on the feedback!
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Ari Paulechen Junior:
I've noticed a genuine desire to assert your views and highlight your qualities — which is totally understandable. I’d just gently suggest reflecting on whether, at times, that impulse might be taking up a bit more space than needed in conversations. A bit more balance could make the exchanges even more enriching and pleasant for everyone. Words of wisdom
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Mike H - Sky View Observatory:
Where's the "dislike" button when you need it and why is it the judges responsibility to tell you what you're doing wrong? You didn't get the IOTD award so what. For goodness sakes, submit your images and move on.
Mike I also am coming around to the idea that this community could benefit from a dislike button - though not for images. But seriously, only the judges know. Not sure what the point is of asking the general community which has no idea what other images were in the queue for consideration, which judges had open slots in their queue etc.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Arun H:
Mike H - Sky View Observatory:
Where's the "dislike" button when you need it and why is it the judges responsibility to tell you what you're doing wrong? You didn't get the IOTD award so what. For goodness sakes, submit your images and move on.
Mike
I also am coming around to the idea that this community could benefit from a dislike button - though not for images. But seriously, only the judges know. Not sure what the point is of asking the general community which has no idea what other images were in the queue for consideration, which judges had open slots in their queue etc. Arun, let's not develop the topic towards this. I wanted to hear critique from the community. I want people to tell me what they think what could be improved. Is noise reduction overdone? Is sharpening not enough? This is what I expect.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
I can't speak to why it didn't win IOTD. I really like the image. And I especially like the framing, by the way. I know some of the judges really appreciate use of the rule of thirds and the golden ratio. Yours is more the former than the latter (it's just not possible to do golden ratio that often). The watermark is a bit big and flashy, but I don't think that's the main issue. Globs are super hard–deceptively hard. I certainly haven't mastered them. I might never be able to. So take my works with a grain of salt.
I would wager that the main critique a judge might have for this image is the dynamic range. The core is a bit washed out–too bright. That leads to a loss of star detail and color. I think the background Ha may also be a bit too bright, which also tends to rob it of detail (but that's a much closer call). Just be aware that even if these are some of the criticisms and you had overcome them in the original image, it's still unlikely that it would make IOTD. Not because of the image itself, but because of the other factors mentioned here–timing, other images in the queue, availability of a slot (a judge can only pick one image per week).
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
they selected a better image.
Try again.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
I guess this is the third or fourth time this type of topic has come up in the last week or two. It reminds me of law school. There, we got three lectures and three reading assignments per week in any given class. At the end of the semester, we had a three-hour final exam that contained one or two essay questions. Then we got a grade based only on that exam. No feedback. No comments. We never saw the final exam papers we turned in. Just three hours to decide your fate for that class--and perhaps your career. There was a grade curve, but it was brutal--usually one A given per class of 90 people. Getting an A in one of my law school classes was like getting 36,342.4 IOTDs on the same day.
Similarly, working in a law firm, you get no direct feedback about how well you're doing. The only mechanisms for feedback are when the court grants or denies your motion, your client prevails in a case (or loses), you get called on the carpet for not billing enough hours, you make partner, or you don't make partner. It's sink or swim, baby. And your colleagues are not your friends. They will do whatever they can to climb over you and get the most prestigious clients or cases. There's certainly going to be a lot of feedback about you, but not to you. And it will never, ever be positive. Even if your colleagues wanted to be friends, they couldn't. They have to bill 2,500 hours this year. Multiply that by 1.5 to 2.0 to get to the number of hours they actually have to work to bill that 2,500. They don't have time for you. The partners don't have time for you. These are some of the reasons I left the big firm I was working for and went into corporate practice.
In astrophotography, we get way more feedback than that. And we typically have examples of excellence to look to for every use case. We also have time to avail ourselves of classes, lessons, forums, and other mechanisms for learning besides getting our asses handed to us by a cranky judge, a reckless client, or a stupid witness. IOTD or not, I'm sure glad I'm doing this now instead of that.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Timothy Martin:
I can't speak to why it didn't win IOTD. I really like the image. And I especially like the framing, by the way. I know some of the judges really appreciate use of the rule of thirds and the golden ratio. Yours is more the former than the latter (it's just not possible to do golden ratio that often). The watermark is a bit big and flashy, but I don't think that's the main issue. Globs are super hard--deceptively hard. I certainly haven't mastered them. I might never be able to. So take my works with a grain of salt.
I would wager that the main critique a judge might have for this image is the dynamic range. The core is a bit washed out--too bright. That leads to a loss of star detail and color. I think the background Ha may also be a bit too bright, which also tends to rob it of detail (but that's a much closer call). Just be aware that even if these are some of the criticisms and you had overcome them in the original image, it's still unlikely that it would make IOTD. Not because of the image itself, but because of the other factors mentioned here--timing, other images in the queue, availability of a slot (a judge can only pick one image per week). Thanks for the feedback Timothy. I will try reviewing these elements for my next try.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
I don't intend to sound harsh, but I spent a solid few minutes looking at your image then I went through the recent ITODs to find one that I felt didn't deserve its spot compared to yours. I could not find one.
Which is not to say your image isn't good or worthy of recognition – it's a great image.
But there can only be one winner every day. And there's a lot of good images out there.
Again my apologies if this is harsh. But my point is that IOTD is really, really competitive.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
I like the composition but between the globular and the Ha and the dust it's hard to know what the main subject is, it's just so busy.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
When symphony musicians audition for the job of playing in the orchestra, the audition is done behind a screen. The judged do not know the personality, age, race or gender of the player. True, they have to have plenty of talent and experience just to get the audition, but that's another issue. The judges listen to the skill and expression of the person auditioning and make their decision. This removes a lot of bias, not all, but quite a bit. The bias it removes has nothing to do with the quality of the playing because expert musicians can be of any age, gender, race or ethnicity.
I would think to make the IOTD more fair, the judges should not know the identity of the photographer. I don't really know if this is already the case, but Timothy mentioned the OP's watermark and I know that almost all photographers put some kind of identifying mark or signature on the image.
If I were running IOTD, I'd want those marks and signatures removed. That way I look at the image and am not tempted to judge who created it, or what their past experience may be, my only bias is my subjective aesthetic response to the image, which is not possible to completely remove nor should it be.
If IOTD is judged this way, that would be better because it removes a lot of unnecessary bias that has nothing to do with a particular image. I doubt it is, because we'd all have to remove any identifying marks or signatures when we submit and we're not asked to do that.
Jerry
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Timothy Martin:
I guess this is the third or fourth time this type of topic has come up in the last week or two. It reminds me of law school. There, we got three lectures and three reading assignments per week in any given class. At the end of the semester, we had a three-hour final exam that contained one or two essay questions. Then we got a grade based only on that exam. No feedback. No comments. We never saw the final exam papers we turned in. Just three hours to decide your fate for that class--and perhaps your career. There was a grade curve, but it was brutal--usually one A given per class of 90 people. Getting an A in one of my law school classes was like getting 36,342.4 IOTDs on the same day.
Similarly, working in a law firm, you get no direct feedback about how well you're doing. The only mechanisms for feedback are when the court grants or denies your motion, your client prevails in a case (or loses), you get called on the carpet for not billing enough hours, you make partner, or you don't make partner. It's sink or swim, baby. And your colleagues are not your friends. They will do whatever they can to climb over you and get the most prestigious clients or cases. There's certainly going to be a lot of feedback about you, but not to you. And it will never, ever be positive. Even if your colleagues wanted to be friends, they couldn't. They have to bill 2,500 hours this year. Multiply that by 1.5 to 2.0 to get to the number of hours they actually have to work to bill that 2,500. They don't have time for you. The partners don't have time for you. These are some of the reasons I left the big firm I was working for and went into corporate practice.
In astrophotography, we get way more feedback than that. And we typically have examples of excellence to look to for every use case. We also have time to avail ourselves of classes, lessons, forums, and other mechanisms for learning besides getting our asses handed to us by a cranky judge, a reckless client, or a stupid witness. IOTD or not, I'm sure glad I'm doing this now instead of that. Yup. I thought it would be a good idea to ask why mine wasn't selected. Maybe there is a reason to it rather than simply random chances of winning it... I'm learning things that might be lowering my chances of success that I wasn't particularly aware of that people cared. Honestly this is my first time asking for feedback publicly here. And yes, I'm surfing the heated discussions to bring attention to my topic and I knew some heated heads would come over too, but I don't care if they are frustrated for another topic about this. I believe this is still somewhat a taboo that needs to be broken and I believe it might be possible to make the evaluation of images more clear if we simply talk instead of being silent. I'm happy that you took it serious and pointed some details out.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Tony Gondola:
I like the composition but between the globular and the Ha and the dust it's hard to know what the main subject is, it's just so busy. There's a revision with less Ha blended. Do you think that is better for the overall image?
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Mauricio Christiano de Souza:
Tony Gondola:
I like the composition but between the globular and the Ha and the dust it's hard to know what the main subject is, it's just so busy.
There's a revision with less Ha blended. Do you think that is better for the overall image? To my taste, the latest rev with no Ha is the best.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Jerry Gerber:
When symphony musicians audition for the job of playing in the orchestra, the audition is done behind a screen. The judged do not know the personality, age, race or gender of the player. True, they have to have plenty of talent and experience just to get the audition, but that's another issue. The judges listen to the skill and expression of the person auditioning and make their decision. This removes a lot of bias, not all, but quite a bit. The bias it removes has nothing to do with the quality of the playing because expert musicians can be of any age, gender, race or ethnicity.
I would think to make the IOTD more fair, the judges should not know the identity of the photographer. I don't really know if this is already the case, but Timothy mentioned the OP's watermark and I know that almost all photographers put some kind of identifying mark or signature on the image.
If I were running IOTD, I'd want those marks and signatures removed. That way I look at the image and am not tempted to judge who created it, or what their past experience may be, my only bias is my subjective aesthetic response to the image, which is not possible to completely remove nor should it be.
If IOTD is judged this way, that would be better because it removes a lot of unnecessary bias that has nothing to do with a particular image. I doubt it is, because we'd all have to remove any identifying marks or signatures when we submit and we're not asked to do that.
Jerry That is a fair point Jerry. Indeed it is not very clear how they do it exactly. I would say that given the size that Astrobin has achieved, I expect that the evaluation process should be pretty much professional... I don't know if they adopt this kind of audition, but if they don't, I believe they should. To wrap my considerations and to not deviate from the feedbacks and turn this into a possible argument (there are enough topics about this already), I think the community deserves a more detailed description of the methodology of how this is being done at the moment, otherwise we can only speak for our assumptions.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Noah Tingey:
I don't intend to sound harsh, but I spent a solid few minutes looking at your image then I went through the recent ITODs to find one that I felt didn't deserve its spot compared to yours. I could not find one.
Which is not to say your image isn't good or worthy of recognition -- it's a great image.
But there can only be one winner every day. And there's a lot of good images out there.
Again my apologies if this is harsh. But my point is that IOTD is really, really competitive. It's ok, Noah. You are being respectful and I understand your point. It would help more if you can point out elements that other awarded images have in common that mine doesn't have, if possible.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
