Hi all, I think this is needed soon. Reasons for dislike need not be disclosed, same with likes. Technically it can be implemented immediately and will lead to a totally new landscape of likes. A community which does not accept dislikes is disfunctional. Looking forward to comments. https://www.techbook.de/mobile-lifestyle/apps/instagram-dislike-testBR Klaus P.S. Even if I will receive a minus of total likes in the end I stick to this idea....
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
What makes a community without dislikes disfunctional? The two largest astro communities that I'm aware of, here and Cloudy Nights, neither have dislikes. Both are generally positive with good discussion. This just sounds like a solution in search of a problem.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
There was a star rating system many years ago even before I joined. My recollection was that it was removed because people were giving one-star ratings purely to knock others down rather than judging the merits images, which sounds quite dysfunctional to me. Here is a 2012 discussion on Cloudy Nights about the star rating system: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/379605-about-rating-images-on-astrobin/If you're looking for constructive feedback from people willing to give some here then the Requests for constructive critique forum seems like the place to find it.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Hi Quinn,
Dislke is present in normal life everywhere. To exclude it from such a community is not realistic, it is present and should be addressed. Positive Bias is an issue in this community here.
In other words: Without dislike every vote of the community is biased.
"Posititve discussions" as you mentioned are not the first goal of such media like Astrobin or Cloudy Nights. Critics are allowed and needed. Otherwise no progress of all of us!
The ultimate goal is to display the reality of the perception of the community.
BR
Klaus
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Hi all,
I think this is needed soon. Reasons for dislike need not be disclosed, same with likes. Technically it can be implemented immediately and will lead to a totally new landscape of likes.
A community which does not accept dislikes is disfunctional. Looking forward to comments.
https://www.techbook.de/mobile-lifestyle/apps/instagram-dislike-test
BR
Klaus
P.S. Even if I will receive a minus of total likes in the end I stick to this idea.... No.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Hi all,
I think this is needed soon. Reasons for dislike need not be disclosed, same with likes. Technically it can be implemented immediately and will lead to a totally new landscape of likes.
A community which does not accept dislikes is disfunctional. Looking forward to comments.
https://www.techbook.de/mobile-lifestyle/apps/instagram-dislike-test
BR
Klaus
P.S. Even if I will receive a minus of total likes in the end I stick to this idea.... I say no. Because we get feedback for the number of views, you can generally get a conclusion as to the desirability of an image by comparing Views/Likes. What more do you need?
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
A community which does not accept dislikes is disfunctional. Looking forward to comments. Amazon used to have dislikes on their reviews. They found that people used it to game the system. So now it is gone. Either a review is helpful or if it isn't you do not click helpful. There is no "Unhelpful" button. YouTube has a "Dislike" button, but the number of dislikes are not made visible. Many major newspaper comment sections either have a "Like" or "Recommend" button, but no "Dislike". All seem to be doing OK and fully functional without visible expression of dislike.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
H Alan,
as long as the viewer does not have the chance to express a dislike there will be still a bias.
Just viewing and giving no like is not the same as giving a clear dislike.
BR,
Klaus
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Hi Arun,
just because some newspapers you have mentioned do not have it is not an argument.
I do not care if imagers who deliver results which will get minus likes will be sad and leave.
I am just a fan of open discussions and that everyone can express his opinion!
BR,
Klaus
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
H Alan,
as long as the viewer does not have the chance to express a dislike there will be still a bias.
Just viewing and giving no like is not the same as giving a clear dislike.
BR,
Klaus Hi Klaus, I now certainly have no doubt about your commitment to this idea! Being true to your suggestion, you might consider setting this forum thread up with a poll so that this idea could be given a thumbs up or thumbs down vote. Having said that, I think it would not be favored by the majority here. However, the decision to add that feature is not likely going to be a democratic decision. Best, Alan
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Hi Arun,
just because some newspapers you have mentioned do not have it is not an argument.
I do not care if imagers who deliver results which will get minus likes will be sad and leave.
I am just a fan of open discussions and that everyone can express his opinion!
BR,
Klaus I would say it is an argument in the same sense as Instagram having dislikes is an argument. Point being there are very functional communities with no active expressions of dislike, which is contrary to your original assertion. People who don’t like those communities due to them not allowing dislikes are free to not participate. I do like Alan’s idea of having a poll on this topic. If a majority of paying subscribers want dislikes to be implemented, they can express so via a poll. Either way, people who are not happy with the outcome can accept it or leave. Always a choice to start your own community the way you want it to function. If you build it and people like it (or are allowed to dislike it) they will come.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Hi Alan,
knowing that the decisions are taken by the owner of this forum will prevent me from setting up polls. It is waste of time!
Awareness of this issue, that was my motivation to bring this up.
If people resistant to advice like the owner of Astrobin will implement this is questionable. But at least I have adressed it, let everyone know, that I do not like the current status!
BR,
Klaus
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Hi Arun,
of course I can start my own community with a clear doubt if it will be as successful as this one. But one thing is clear:
As long as no dislikes or negative feedback is used to be communicated in this forum it may be the most important of all, but taking it really seriously is not possible!
CS,
Klaus
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
I dislike this post.
Problem solved. You're welcome Salvatore
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
I see no good reason for a dislike option. Astrophotography is challenging, and while experience helps, it doesn't necessarily become easier. A dislike button could discourage participation and breed negativity. I'm not interested in a forum that deteriorates like that. Let's support each other, as clear skies and ample time are rare(at least in my neck of the woods). Can you imagine dragging gear outside for weeks, working on the data to the best of your ability, and then getting a horde of dislikes?
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
This thread reminds me of the Monty Python Argument Sketch  |
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Why? So you can discourage people you don't deem worthy? so you can make yourself feel better than others?
I see plenty of images I don't like… I make plenty of images I don't end up liking… But you know what - Regardless of the quality of my best image, or my worst image, I see absolutely no reason to have a completely unexplained "I don't like what you've done" button.
If you don't like an image, I find it FAR more valuable to formulate a comment that is constructive and encouraging, while outlining areas that could be improved. This can take time, thought and consideration though, and if you aren't willing to help someone become better, improve their craft and grow as an astrophotographer, then by all means - move along to the next image…
Imagine if everyone went around posting completely trash comments with no constructive/educational content…
A dislike button is no different than going to the comments and saying "This is garbage" and moving along… But I bet you don't want to do that, because it seems you want to be an anonymous a**hole rather than a constrcutive, supportive member of a community.
Enjoy yourself, be kind, and grow up a little.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
If you are paying attention you'll know that most of the members of the community have no trouble with negative comments and can back them up with information about why. I think a dislike button is too easily misused and takes no thought or effort. It should be argued in open forum which is what happens here. If you have something negative to say, just say it but be ready to defend your view. IMO what makes most social media dysfunctional is that people can often be anonymous and not have to defend what they say.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Both likes and dislikes can be biased and have nothing to do with the actual astrophoto. So, in my mind, just adding another way to give a biased opinion would only cause more dysfunction, especially since a dislike is a negative opinion of you or your work, and this would probably just increase heated discussion on the forum. People can use dislikes as a new way of personal attack.
I'm not sure if this is what Salvatore intended for the like button, but it seems to me that pressing the button has become largely a social/praising thing. It may not even partly represent what a person truly thinks about your image (as I said, likes can be biased).
People have often taken likes and bookmarks as actual critiques of their images, believing them to be positive opinions of the images themselves. But the reality is not always so simple. That's why, if you notice, a number of people with many likes—excluding some wizards at post-processing (like Bray Falls and similar)—have weirdly and poorly processed images (I can hunt some for evidence). It seems to me that they would think they're doing a very fine job.
Uncritical support can cause someone to stay blind to their mistakes. While likes certainly count as support, and were likely intended as such, they often don't provide the feedback the liked astrophotographer needed to actually improve his skills; the only plus is that it can bring motivation, but that's really all the good it can do..
You could argue that there's no wrong way to process an image, but then you'd need to explain why some garbage or plasticized edit can't be an IOTD. Clearly, there's a general right and wrong, according to the experts. You might say they don't go by 'right and wrong' but by mere 'prettiness.' Even then, there is a general concept of prettiness, according to the experts, and I'd have to agree with this concept. After all, IOTDs look really good to me 99% of the time, so it's not like I'm a lone wolf with my own unique concepts making this last observation.
This is my view; I know I kind of expanded the topic to some other points, and I know my post might infuriate some. I'm simply sharing my observations as someone who thinks he knows what a pretty image should look like.
I think Astrobin is acceptable enough, the way it is right now. Thank you. A poll would be good, but I'd have to go with the disagreeing side.
CS!
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
This is the only comment I will make in this publication, because I think the other colleagues have already spoken to you very clearly.
With all due respect, I am sorry to say that maybe you feel envy (unfortunately of the bad kind) for the images of other astrophotographers.
Why don't you, instead of feeling bad envy when you see other images, use them to inspire you to keep progressing and improving as an astrophotographer and as a person?
Think about it.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
Fortunately, every browser already contains a dislike button! It's the little "X" you click to close the tab or the window.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
My 2 cents:
While a dislike button might not be a good feature, I tend to agree the community has a bad habit of only supporting everything blindly. I see way too many images with excessive noise, terrible colors, excessive noise reduction and AI, etc, etc, getting praised for absolutely no reason. I really wonder if it is because people don't notice the difference in processing techniques between a fine image and a deep fry, or if it is some kind of mutual ego inflation.
There is a good percentage of images that have a Ferrari worth in equipments behind them, but are executed so badly and somehow even make to IOTD, while there are many talented people with equipment much less complex doing 10x a better job at processing and selecting interesting targets. I'm not, personally, satisfied with this type of recognition. I don't bother much though, this kind of behavior is seen in many other categories of hobbies and social life in general.
It is important to highligh however, that sometimes people seem to get together and do the right thing, but that happens sporadically. One example I remember is people criticizing AI on those 'NEW DISCOVERY' images - This is what I consider a healthy behavior.
On the other hand, I don't think people here are open to hear critique (everybody at least). While a forum for critique is a step in the right way, there are very few people that use it and want their images to be criticized. I've seen a couple of times people being despised for criticizing other's people images in the comment section. Not just here, but in other forums and groups as well. Argument from 'authority' bias is very strong in astrophotography... Usually the person that has the bigger scope (or more time in the hobby) is the 'stronger' end.
The despise can be seen in the answers in this topic... OP made a suggestion (I don't think it is a good thing, but I understand his intentions), and received very mean comments like: 'grow up', 'you are envy' and 'be better'. This is not constructive to make Astrobin a better place, in fact, thoughts like this will make Astrobin resistant to potencially good changes. I give credit to those who were open to discuss why this isn't a good idea, for me it was convincing that Dislikes won't make anything better, but it was also convincing that the community is not entirely ready for open critique.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
1) Criticism can be valuable but ONLY if it is accompanied by suggestions on to how to improve.
In fact, I benefitted from this just a couple days ago when two users (on an another forum, not here) said they thought there was too much purple in one region of my image. I looked at the image again and I agreed. I then was able to fix that which resulted in a better image. If it had just been a "dislike" my image would have gained nothing and I would have gained nothing but dismay and confusion.
2) Do we really need to copy what many view as the worst feature of another website?
3) The IOTD/TP system is already doing much of this already, but not so rudely as with a "dislike". For example: if you are getting lots of early dismissals, you can probably figure that you need to up your game. That system also has the advantage of being rated by some of the better imagers, not just any member, so ratings are more expert and anonymous.
4) Just as "Likes", "Dislikes" would be open to everyone and that means it becomes as much of a "social" thing as a quality thing (maybe more).
5) An image's comments are always available if you don't like an image and have a useful suggestion.
So yes, there are some bad images but the goal should be to help correct that and in as civil a way possible.
Short version. NO |
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
What problem are you trying to solve? Let's start with the problem rather than proposing a solution.
|
You cannot like this item. Reason: "ANONYMOUS".
You cannot remove your like from this item.
Editing a post is only allowed within 24 hours after creating it.
You cannot Like this post because the topic is closed.
Copy the URL below to share a direct link to this post.
This post cannot be edited using the classic forums editor.
To edit this post, please enable the "New forums experience" in your settings.
