Let ZWO ASIAIR die?

17.56 Brian Boyle ... · view views · 3 likes · Share link
Ashraf AbuSara: The only three things I wish I had from NINA are: - Advanced sequencer that can be set to my backyard custom horizon where you can set certain parameters as to when to start and stop a sequence for a target and move to the next target based on their altitude in the sky rather than just a dumb sequence of events like the planner in the ASIair. - Filter offsets for reducing time for repeated AF sequences. - Advanced autofocus routines that can do multistar focus, assist in correcting tilt and backfocus, etc. But the one thing I will miss from the ASIair is a functional mobile app that works from my phone with direct control from the native app without having to remote into a desktop on your mini-pc. That's it really. Hi Ashraf, Those would be useful things to have - both in NINA and ASIAir. The altitude limit would appear to be a relatively simple thing to implement, and I wonder why this has not been done [in either NINA or ASIAir]? The tilt/backfocus might be a little harder, since it requires so much manual intervention. Thanks to a very helpful post here, I started using ASTAP [versions for both Mac and PC] to adjust tilt at the scope [what else are full moon nights for?]. Previously I had use a benchtop jig to fix sensor tilt, but some things are just fone best on sky. Regarding other comments on expense, I always look a gift horse in the mouth. I value the time I have remaining on this planet quite highly [around 22 years if actuarial tables are to be believed]. Even at a cut price rate of USD100/hour, a few hours set-up is quite expensive even if the software is "free". Viewed this way the PrimaLuce stuff looks good. But so does the ZWO stuff. CS and thanks Brian Edited ... Like

17.56

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Ashraf AbuSara:

The only three things I wish I had from NINA are:
- Advanced sequencer that can be set to my backyard custom horizon where you can set certain parameters as to when to start and stop a sequence for a target and move to the next target based on their altitude in the sky rather than just a dumb sequence of events like the planner in the ASIair.
- Filter offsets for reducing time for repeated AF sequences.
- Advanced autofocus routines that can do multistar focus, assist in correcting tilt and backfocus, etc.

But the one thing I will miss from the ASIair is a functional mobile app that works from my phone with direct control from the native app without having to remote into a desktop on your mini-pc.

That's it really.

Hi Ashraf,

Those would be useful things to have - both in NINA and ASIAir.

The altitude limit would appear to be a relatively simple thing to implement, and I wonder why this has not been done [in either NINA or ASIAir]?

The tilt/backfocus might be a little harder, since it requires so much manual intervention. Thanks to a very helpful post here, I started using ASTAP [versions for both Mac and PC] to adjust tilt at the scope [what else are full moon nights for?]. Previously I had use a benchtop jig to fix sensor tilt, but some things are just fone best on sky.

Regarding other comments on expense, I always look a gift horse in the mouth.

I value the time I have remaining on this planet quite highly [around 22 years if actuarial tables are to be believed]. Even at a cut price rate of USD100/hour, a few hours set-up is quite expensive even if the software is "free". Viewed this way the PrimaLuce stuff looks good. But so does the ZWO stuff.

CS and thanks Brian

Edited ...

9.38 Quinn Groessl ... · view views · Share link
Tom Carrico: When imaging in my backyard, I usually go the PC/SGP route. More accessories are supported (flip flat, QSI cameras and the like). I don't have a dome. SGP works fine, I can do whatever I want. However, when I go to star parties, or a local astro site, or do EAA, I use my ASI AIR. The setup is simpler, power requirements are a bit less, and it is fun to walk around with my iPad showing folks imaging. It would be nice if flip flats were supported, but that will not stop me using ASI Air for the foreseeable future. I really don't think this needs to be an either or situation. PC's and SGP/NINA are great solutions, but the ASI AIR checks quite a few boxes, at least for me. I’m pretty sure Deepskydad figured out a way to make a flat panel that works with the ASIAIR plus. It requires two of the dc ports and one has to be adjustable. Like

9.38

Quinn Groessl

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Tom Carrico:
When imaging in my backyard, I usually go the PC/SGP route. More accessories are supported (flip flat, QSI cameras and the like). I don't have a dome. SGP works fine, I can do whatever I want. However, when I go to star parties, or a local astro site, or do EAA, I use my ASI AIR. The setup is simpler, power requirements are a bit less, and it is fun to walk around with my iPad showing folks imaging. It would be nice if flip flats were supported, but that will not stop me using ASI Air for the foreseeable future.
I really don't think this needs to be an either or situation. PC's and SGP/NINA are great solutions, but the ASI AIR checks quite a few boxes, at least for me.

I’m pretty sure Deepskydad figured out a way to make a flat panel that works with the ASIAIR plus. It requires two of the dc ports and one has to be adjustable.

0.90 Tom Carrico ... · view views · Share link
Quinn Groessl: I’m pretty sure Deepskydad figured out a way to make a flat panel that works with the ASIAIR plus. It requires two of the dc ports and one has to be adjustable. I just checked out the DeekSkyDad video for the cable. This is great! I have one of their flip flats on my RedCat 51. Like

6.90 Gary JONES ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
Ashraf AbuSara: The only three things I wish I had from NINA are: - Advanced sequencer that can be set to my backyard custom horizon where you can set certain parameters as to when to start and stop a sequence for a target and move to the next target based on their altitude in the sky rather than just a dumb sequence of events like the planner in the ASIair. - Filter offsets for reducing time for repeated AF sequences. - Advanced autofocus routines that can do multistar focus, assist in correcting tilt and backfocus, etc. But the one thing I will miss from the ASIair is a functional mobile app that works from my phone with direct control from the native app without having to remote into a desktop on your mini-pc. Ashraf, I wonder whether you meant to say 'The only three things I wish I had from ASIAir* are:* ' ? The 3 things you list there are most certainly available in NINA. In terms of missing the ability to control your ASIAir from you mobile or tablet, you can also most certainly do that with NINA, very reliably and easily, with the benefit of being able to select what views to display. Like

6.90

Gary JONES

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Ashraf AbuSara:
The only three things I wish I had from NINA are:
- Advanced sequencer that can be set to my backyard custom horizon where you can set certain parameters as to when to start and stop a sequence for a target and move to the next target based on their altitude in the sky rather than just a dumb sequence of events like the planner in the ASIair.
- Filter offsets for reducing time for repeated AF sequences.
- Advanced autofocus routines that can do multistar focus, assist in correcting tilt and backfocus, etc.

But the one thing I will miss from the ASIair is a functional mobile app that works from my phone with direct control from the native app without having to remote into a desktop on your mini-pc.

Ashraf, I wonder whether you meant to say 'The only three things I wish I had from ASIAir are: ' ?

The 3 things you list there are most certainly available in NINA.

In terms of missing the ability to control your ASIAir from you mobile or tablet, you can also most certainly do that with NINA, very reliably and easily, with the benefit of being able to select what views to display.

9.38 Quinn Groessl ... · view views · Share link
Tom Carrico: Quinn Groessl: I’m pretty sure Deepskydad figured out a way to make a flat panel that works with the ASIAIR plus. It requires two of the dc ports and one has to be adjustable. I just checked out the DeekSkyDad video for the cable. This is great! I have one of their flip flats on my RedCat 51. Really a genius way of doing it. Someone in the comments asked about a possible rotator that would work the same way. Like

9.38

Quinn Groessl

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Tom Carrico:
Quinn Groessl:
I’m pretty sure Deepskydad figured out a way to make a flat panel that works with the ASIAIR plus. It requires two of the dc ports and one has to be adjustable.

I just checked out the DeekSkyDad video for the cable. This is great! I have one of their flip flats on my RedCat 51.

Really a genius way of doing it. Someone in the comments asked about a possible rotator that would work the same way.

9.31 Ashraf AbuSara ... · view views · Share link
Gary JONES: Ashraf AbuSara: The only three things I wish I had from NINA are: - Advanced sequencer that can be set to my backyard custom horizon where you can set certain parameters as to when to start and stop a sequence for a target and move to the next target based on their altitude in the sky rather than just a dumb sequence of events like the planner in the ASIair. - Filter offsets for reducing time for repeated AF sequences. - Advanced autofocus routines that can do multistar focus, assist in correcting tilt and backfocus, etc. But the one thing I will miss from the ASIair is a functional mobile app that works from my phone with direct control from the native app without having to remote into a desktop on your mini-pc. Ashraf, I wonder whether you meant to say 'The only three things I wish I had from ASIAir* are:* ' ? The 3 things you list there are most certainly available in NINA. In terms of missing the ability to control your ASIAir from you mobile or tablet, you can also most certainly do that with NINA, very reliably and easily, with the benefit of being able to select what views to display. Apologies if it was not clear, but what I mean to say the only three things I wish I had brought into ASIair from Nina. I am not aware of a native app to the iOS or android that can control Nina remotely without using remote desktop into a mini PC. Am I missing something? Like

9.31

Ashraf AbuSara

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Gary JONES:
Ashraf AbuSara:
The only three things I wish I had from NINA are:
- Advanced sequencer that can be set to my backyard custom horizon where you can set certain parameters as to when to start and stop a sequence for a target and move to the next target based on their altitude in the sky rather than just a dumb sequence of events like the planner in the ASIair.
- Filter offsets for reducing time for repeated AF sequences.
- Advanced autofocus routines that can do multistar focus, assist in correcting tilt and backfocus, etc.

But the one thing I will miss from the ASIair is a functional mobile app that works from my phone with direct control from the native app without having to remote into a desktop on your mini-pc.

Ashraf, I wonder whether you meant to say 'The only three things I wish I had from ASIAir are: ' ?

The 3 things you list there are most certainly available in NINA.

In terms of missing the ability to control your ASIAir from you mobile or tablet, you can also most certainly do that with NINA, very reliably and easily, with the benefit of being able to select what views to display.

Apologies if it was not clear, but what I mean to say the only three things I wish I had brought into ASIair from Nina.

I am not aware of a native app to the iOS or android that can control Nina remotely without using remote desktop into a mini PC. Am I missing something?

6.90 Gary JONES ... · view views · 6 likes · Share link
Brian Boyle: What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.? This is a genuine question... I really would love to know. I'll try to briefly answer Brian's question ... What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.? Let me begin by saying that ASIAir is a great product - for what it is, it works very well and is very inexpensive. I owned an ASIAir Pro, then updated to the AISAir Plus - so I can speak from experience. I've since sold both units, so any comparison I can make now relies on memory, but I'll do my best :- ASIAir Pros 1. Light, compact and very portable 2. Inexpensive 3. Very easy to use 4. Built-in power management and USB hub 5. Tiny size ASIAir Cons 1. Somewhat locked into the ZWO ecosystem. 2. Very awkward process for upgrading firmware. 3. Unreliable Wifi - it worked fine most of the time, but not always. 4. Poor documentation and poor technical support. 5. Very limited feature set. 6. The ASIAir app just never worked on Mac (even though ZWO claimed it did). 7. Does not support dew-heaters. 8. Could never get it to work via ethernet. 9. Very limited customisation - now way to do basic things like defining the format for filenames etc. NINA + PC - Pros 1. Supports all ZWO devices, without being locked into the ZWO ecosystem. 2. Supports ASCOM and INDI. 3. Lets you define sequences on your desktop - much easier than doing it on an iPhone or tablet. 4. Supports automatic lights/darks based on exposure or time. 5. Supports powerful 3rd party plugins such as : 3-point polar alignment; Horizon creator; Target planner; Hocus Focus; Synchronisation. 6. Lets you define file pathnames (I really wanted this so I could name files beginning with creation date/time rather than target name). 7. Can be run directly from the mini PC via HDMI, or via WiFI using a laptop, smartphone or tablet using Remote Desktop or similar. 8. Open source and free to use. 9. Very active developers and great technical support, plus a very active user community and great online support. 10. User-configurable user interface - run the features you need in separate windows. 11. Supports running multiple telescopes at the same time (great for dual-optic rigs). 12. It is no more difficult to learn than ASIAir. 13. It is very easy to control any aspect of your equipment via the sequencer - such as filter changes, autofocus etc. 14. It can run peripherals such as switching a laser on or off using an ASCOM interface. 15. If using a Power-Box, can power dew heaters. 16. Easy to upgrade the mini-PC if you need more processing power. 17. NINA has very nifty features like image scaling, aberration inspector, annotations and history inspector. NINA + PC - Cons 1. Requires a PC - but these can be bought for a few hundred dollars. 2. The 'advanced' sequencer is rather difficult to configure. 3. Requires a separate power controller. My Setup I run my gear from a little lithium power-pack, with my Eagle attached to the side, so it travels as a single, lightweight unit that powers my rig all night. I have one power cable + one USB running from the power-pack to the mount and telescope, so wiring is very simple. This setup lets me easily switch the controller between different telescopes, rather than having the controller bolted to the telescope, as I did with my ASIAir. It even lets me run multiple rigs from the same controller at the same time, and even lets me run two telescopes at the same time on the same mount, using NINA's Synchronization plugin to coordinate dithering. Useability In terms of usability, I recall the ASIAir app being somewhat confusing at first, with many aspects of the user interface poorly conceived and unintuitive. But like all such things, I became accustomed to it over time and found it easy to set up and use most of the time, even though it was somewhat limited. Similarly with NINA, at first it seemed overwhelming, but with a little practice I found the interface very logical and intuitive (with the exception of the advanced sequencer), and it opened up many imaging opportunities that were simply not possible on the ASIAir. Cost A new ASIAir Plus with 256GB storage costs AUD 699. A new Mini PC can be purchased for about AUD 200, and a Powerbox Astro for about AUD 656, so the total investment is about AUD 865. So the PC + NINA solution will cost about AUD 166 more than the ASIAir solution - not a great deal money. The Question I suppose the basic question is this ... if I could go back in time, would I buy the ASIAir again ? My answer is no - definitely not. In a heartbeat I would invest a little more cash in a mini PC + Powerbox, and enjoy the extra power and flexibility of NINA. I hope all that helps Gary Edited ... Like

6.90

Gary JONES

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Brian Boyle:
What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.? This is a genuine question... I really would love to know.

I'll try to briefly answer Brian's question ... What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.?

Let me begin by saying that ASIAir is a great product - for what it is, it works very well and is very inexpensive. I owned an ASIAir Pro, then updated to the AISAir Plus - so I can speak from experience. I've since sold both units, so any comparison I can make now relies on memory, but I'll do my best :-

ASIAir Pros
1. Light, compact and very portable
2. Inexpensive
3. Very easy to use
4. Built-in power management and USB hub
5. Tiny size

ASIAir Cons
1. Somewhat locked into the ZWO ecosystem.
2. Very awkward process for upgrading firmware.
3. Unreliable Wifi - it worked fine most of the time, but not always.
4. Poor documentation and poor technical support.
5. Very limited feature set.
6. The ASIAir app just never worked on Mac (even though ZWO claimed it did).
7. Does not support dew-heaters.
8. Could never get it to work via ethernet.
9. Very limited customisation - now way to do basic things like defining the format for filenames etc.

NINA + PC - Pros
1. Supports all ZWO devices, without being locked into the ZWO ecosystem.
2. Supports ASCOM and INDI.
3. Lets you define sequences on your desktop - much easier than doing it on an iPhone or tablet.
4. Supports automatic lights/darks based on exposure or time.
5. Supports powerful 3rd party plugins such as : 3-point polar alignment; Horizon creator; Target planner; Hocus Focus; Synchronisation.
6. Lets you define file pathnames (I really wanted this so I could name files beginning with creation date/time rather than target name).
7. Can be run directly from the mini PC via HDMI, or via WiFI using a laptop, smartphone or tablet using Remote Desktop or similar.
8. Open source and free to use.
9. Very active developers and great technical support, plus a very active user community and great online support.
10. User-configurable user interface - run the features you need in separate windows.
11. Supports running multiple telescopes at the same time (great for dual-optic rigs).
12. It is no more difficult to learn than ASIAir.
13. It is very easy to control any aspect of your equipment via the sequencer - such as filter changes, autofocus etc.
14. It can run peripherals such as switching a laser on or off using an ASCOM interface.
15. If using a Power-Box, can power dew heaters.
16. Easy to upgrade the mini-PC if you need more processing power.
17. NINA has very nifty features like image scaling, aberration inspector, annotations and history inspector.

NINA + PC - Cons
1. Requires a PC - but these can be bought for a few hundred dollars.
2. The 'advanced' sequencer is rather difficult to configure.
3. Requires a separate power controller.

My Setup
I run my gear from a little lithium power-pack, with my Eagle attached to the side, so it travels as a single, lightweight unit that powers my rig all night.
I have one power cable + one USB running from the power-pack to the mount and telescope, so wiring is very simple.
This setup lets me easily switch the controller between different telescopes, rather than having the controller bolted to the telescope, as I did with my ASIAir. It even lets me run multiple rigs from the same controller at the same time, and even lets me run two telescopes at the same time on the same mount, using NINA's Synchronization plugin to coordinate dithering.

Useability
In terms of usability, I recall the ASIAir app being somewhat confusing at first, with many aspects of the user interface poorly conceived and unintuitive. But like all such things, I became accustomed to it over time and found it easy to set up and use most of the time, even though it was somewhat limited.

Similarly with NINA, at first it seemed overwhelming, but with a little practice I found the interface very logical and intuitive (with the exception of the advanced sequencer), and it opened up many imaging opportunities that were simply not possible on the ASIAir.

Cost
A new ASIAir Plus with 256GB storage costs AUD 699.
A new Mini PC can be purchased for about AUD 200, and a Powerbox Astro for about AUD 656, so the total investment is about AUD 865.

So the PC + NINA solution will cost about AUD 166 more than the ASIAir solution - not a great deal money.

The Question
I suppose the basic question is this ... if I could go back in time, would I buy the ASIAir again ?

My answer is no - definitely not.

In a heartbeat I would invest a little more cash in a mini PC + Powerbox, and enjoy the extra power and flexibility of NINA.

I hope all that helps

Gary

Edited ...

6.90 Gary JONES ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
Ashraf AbuSara: I am not aware of a native app to the iOS or android that can control Nina remotely without using remote desktop into a mini PC. Am I missing something? Hi Ashraf, No, there is no native iOS or Android app to access NINA remotely, but accessing NINA remotely works perfectly well using Microsoft Remote Desktop or the Google equivalent. Using Remote Desktop is really no different to running a dedicated remote app like the ASIAir app - all the processing still runs on the mini PC, and the app just provides an interface to control it and to see what it is doing. I've used Microsoft Remote Desktop on my Mac, iPhone and iPad ever since I started using NINA, and have never had any problems with it. Typically, I use my desktop Mac to research targets and define my sequences, then switch to my iPad once Ive set up my gear and do flats, AutoFocus and PA, then just run the sequence and watch the images roll in. Like

6.90

Gary JONES

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Ashraf AbuSara:
I am not aware of a native app to the iOS or android that can control Nina remotely without using remote desktop into a mini PC. Am I missing something?

Hi Ashraf,
No, there is no native iOS or Android app to access NINA remotely, but accessing NINA remotely works perfectly well using Microsoft Remote Desktop or the Google equivalent.

Using Remote Desktop is really no different to running a dedicated remote app like the ASIAir app - all the processing still runs on the mini PC, and the app just provides an interface to control it and to see what it is doing.

I've used Microsoft Remote Desktop on my Mac, iPhone and iPad ever since I started using NINA, and have never had any problems with it.

Typically, I use my desktop Mac to research targets and define my sequences, then switch to my iPad once Ive set up my gear and do flats, AutoFocus and PA, then just run the sequence and watch the images roll in.

17.56 Brian Boyle ... · view views · Share link
Thanks so much @Gary JONES @Ashraf AbuSara That is so useful. Such a solution may very well allow the ASIAir to die, albeit resting in peace having vaiantly served its purpose. Just so I understand: Mac or iPad + Mini PC + Powerbox. All sit on the same intranet. Mac and iPad connects to miniPC via MS Remote Desktop App Mini PC has NINA loaded onto it and sits next to the desktop Mac Powerbox Astro is at the scope controlling all devices. ipad can be used for observatry tasks Mac desktop for preparation, monitoring during night as data rolls in. Did I get that right? If so there is a Kogan miniPC with Windows 11, 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD going for NZD189.... CS Brian Like

17.56

Brian Boyle

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Thanks so much @Gary JONES @Ashraf AbuSara That is so useful. Such a solution may very well allow the ASIAir to die, albeit resting in peace having vaiantly served its purpose.

Just so I understand:

Mac or iPad + Mini PC + Powerbox.

All sit on the same intranet.

Mac and iPad connects to miniPC via MS Remote Desktop App
Mini PC has NINA loaded onto it and sits next to the desktop Mac
Powerbox Astro is at the scope controlling all devices.

ipad can be used for observatry tasks
Mac desktop for preparation, monitoring during night as data rolls in.

Did I get that right? If so there is a Kogan miniPC with Windows 11, 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD going for NZD189....

CS Brian

7.94 Frank Alvaro ... · view views · Share link
I started my astrophotography journey a couple of years ago with the ASIAir Plus (AAP); as a complete novice it was the ideal start to the hobby. I wasn't concerned that it locked me into the ZWO ecosystem, as all my hardware needs were (and still are) fulfilled by ZWO. I'm very happy with what I've been able to achieve from a standing start. However, recently I started feeling restricted by what the AAP offered in terms of customisation and advanced features, especially in relation to what NINA could do. This included looping sequences of subs from different filters so I ended up with roughly the same number of subs for each per session; the use of the custom horizon that I built for Stellarium; filter offsets and smarter refocussing options; and being able to use the complete PH2 Guiding app, with all of its features, not forgetting the numerous NINA plugins that I'm yet to explore. So I purchased a refurbished mini PC (AUD $150) and set NINA up. I also saved money by keeping the AAP attached to my rig and using it as the power hub for the camera and peripherals. Sure, there was a bit of a learning curve, and some swearing, for the first couple of sessions with NINA, but after a couple of weeks using it, at both home and at a dark site, I'm sold on it. The AAP definitely has a place for both newcomers to astrophotography and those who just want a simple, reasonably reliable system - absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if one wants more flexible and advanced options for their image gathering, I can recommend NINA. Edited ... Like

7.94

Frank Alvaro

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I started my astrophotography journey a couple of years ago with the ASIAir Plus (AAP); as a complete novice it was the ideal start to the hobby. I wasn't concerned that it locked me into the ZWO ecosystem, as all my hardware needs were (and still are) fulfilled by ZWO. I'm very happy with what I've been able to achieve from a standing start.
However, recently I started feeling restricted by what the AAP offered in terms of customisation and advanced features, especially in relation to what NINA could do. This included looping sequences of subs from different filters so I ended up with roughly the same number of subs for each per session; the use of the custom horizon that I built for Stellarium; filter offsets and smarter refocussing options; and being able to use the complete PH2 Guiding app, with all of its features, not forgetting the numerous NINA plugins that I'm yet to explore. So I purchased a refurbished mini PC (AUD $150) and set NINA up. I also saved money by keeping the AAP attached to my rig and using it as the power hub for the camera and peripherals.

Sure, there was a bit of a learning curve, and some swearing, for the first couple of sessions with NINA, but after a couple of weeks using it, at both home and at a dark site, I'm sold on it. The AAP definitely has a place for both newcomers to astrophotography and those who just want a simple, reasonably reliable system - absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if one wants more flexible and advanced options for their image gathering, I can recommend NINA.

Edited ...

6.90 Gary JONES ... · view views · Share link
Brian Boyle: Did I get that right? If so there is a Kogan miniPC with Windows 11, 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD going for NZD189.... Hi Brian, Great - I hope my suggestions were helpful - glad to help a colleague across the ditch Here's the setup :- - All devices sit on the same intranet. I understand this can also be done vis the internet, but I haven't tried it (yet). - Mini PC runs NINA and sits next to your telescope - its connected via WiFi (or ethernet to your WiFi node) and doesn't need to be near the Mac. - Mac / iPad / iPhone connect to miniPC via MS Remote Desktop App - or Google Remote Desktop etc - to display your NINA windows. - Powerbox Astro is at/on the scope powering all your devices. - Mac desktop to prepare sequences etc - also for doing darks inside. - Mac/iPad/iPhone monitoring everything during the night as images roll in. So, although this solution may very well allow the ASIAir to die, having valiantly served its purpose as a controller, it could just as easily change career to become a power supply ! The tradeoff is that you won't be able to control or monitor the ASIAir via NINA as you can with the PowerBox, but you could still watch what it's doing via the ASIAir app on your iPhone, while you watch NINA on your Mac or iPad. Just a thought Edited ... Like

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Gary JONES

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Brian Boyle:
Did I get that right? If so there is a Kogan miniPC with Windows 11, 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD going for NZD189....

Hi Brian,
Great - I hope my suggestions were helpful - glad to help a colleague across the ditch

Here's the setup :-

- All devices sit on the same intranet. I understand this can also be done vis the internet, but I haven't tried it (yet).
- Mini PC runs NINA and sits next to your telescope - its connected via WiFi (or ethernet to your WiFi node) and doesn't need to be near the Mac.
- Mac / iPad / iPhone connect to miniPC via MS Remote Desktop App - or Google Remote Desktop etc - to display your NINA windows.
- Powerbox Astro is at/on the scope powering all your devices.
- Mac desktop to prepare sequences etc - also for doing darks inside.
- Mac/iPad/iPhone monitoring everything during the night as images roll in.

So, although this solution may very well allow the ASIAir to die, having valiantly served its purpose as a controller, it could just as easily change career to become a power supply !

The tradeoff is that you won't be able to control or monitor the ASIAir via NINA as you can with the PowerBox, but you could still watch what it's doing via the ASIAir app on your iPhone, while you watch NINA on your Mac or iPad.

Just a thought

Edited ...

7.94 Frank Alvaro ... · view views · Share link
Gary JONES: So, although this solution may very well allow the ASIAir to die, having valiantly served its purpose as a controller, it could change career to become a power supply Exactly what I've done (see my post above). Like

1.43 Stephen Allen ... · view views · Share link
Following on from my earlier comments, I would like to add that my ASIAIR Plus will stlll have an important part to play in having fun with this hobby. For a ‘grab and go’ solution, coupled with a small refractor and mounted on the AM5 I can get imaging in under 30 minutes including siting the equipment, polar align etc. The only downside to true portability is that wireless connection on both of my ASIAIRs is flaky at best and has very short range. I have found ethernet connection to my Netgear Orbi and then access anywhere in my home from my iPad beats standing out in the cold waiting for the wireless to re-connect and is also very robust. I 100% agree with Gary’s more detailed analysis which matches my own experiences also. I also think that whilst Eagle is expensive, you get what you pay for. An agnostic computer, purpose designed for astro, with loads of power management features, temp control, fast USB ports, and a very good (and now mature) UI. BR Steve Like

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Stephen Allen

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Following on from my earlier comments, I would like to add that my ASIAIR Plus will stlll have an important part to play in having fun with this hobby. For a ‘grab and go’ solution, coupled with a small refractor and mounted on the AM5 I can get imaging in under 30 minutes including siting the equipment, polar align etc.

The only downside to true portability is that wireless connection on both of my ASIAIRs is flaky at best and has very short range. I have found ethernet connection to my Netgear Orbi and then access anywhere in my home from my iPad beats standing out in the cold waiting for the wireless to re-connect and is also very robust.

I 100% agree with Gary’s more detailed analysis which matches my own experiences also.

I also think that whilst Eagle is expensive, you get what you pay for. An agnostic computer, purpose designed for astro, with loads of power management features, temp control, fast USB ports, and a very good (and now mature) UI.

BR Steve

1.81 Michael Nemetz ... · view views · Share link
Gary JONES: NINA + PC - Cons 1. Requires a PC - but these can be bought for a few hundred dollars. 2. The 'advanced' sequencer is rather difficult to configure. 3. Requires a separate power controller. I disagree here, Primaluce Lab Eagle does have a power controller, yes it is more expensive but it is worth it imo an they have an excellent customer service. Like

6.90 Gary JONES ... · view views · Share link
Michael Nemetz: I disagree here, Primaluce Lab Eagle does have a power controller, yes it is more expensive but it is worth it imo an they have an excellent customer service. Hi Michael, Yes, what you say is absolutely correct ... But I was referring to a mini-PC, which does not have a power controller, rather than an Eagle, which does Like

1.81 Michael Nemetz ... · view views · Share link
Gary JONES: But I was referring to a mini-PC, which does not have a power controller, rather than an Eagle, which does Indeed, a normal Mini PC doesn't have a power controller, like a normal Rasbperry Pi. An Eagle is a Intel NUC Mini PC in a custom case with power controller, like an ASIAir is a Raspberry Pi in a custom case with a power controller . Choosing an Astro controller is as complicated as starting Astrophotography and hearing about flats, darks and bias frames Like

1.81

Michael Nemetz

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Gary JONES:
But I was referring to a mini-PC, which does not have a power controller, rather than an Eagle, which does

Indeed, a normal Mini PC doesn't have a power controller, like a normal Rasbperry Pi. An Eagle is a Intel NUC Mini PC in a custom case with power controller, like an ASIAir is a Raspberry Pi in a custom case with a power controller

. Choosing an Astro controller is as complicated as starting Astrophotography and hearing about flats, darks and bias frames

9.31 Ashraf AbuSara ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
Gary JONES: Ashraf AbuSara: I am not aware of a native app to the iOS or android that can control Nina remotely without using remote desktop into a mini PC. Am I missing something? Hi Ashraf, No, there is no native iOS or Android app to access NINA remotely, but accessing NINA remotely works perfectly well using Microsoft Remote Desktop or the Google equivalent. Using Remote Desktop is really no different to running a dedicated remote app like the ASIAir app - all the processing still runs on the mini PC, and the app just provides an interface to control it and to see what it is doing. I've used Microsoft Remote Desktop on my Mac, iPhone and iPad ever since I started using NINA, and have never had any problems with it. Typically, I use my desktop Mac to research targets and define my sequences, then switch to my iPad once Ive set up my gear and do flats, AutoFocus and PA, then just run the sequence and watch the images roll in. Using a remote desktop is really different than using a native app on a phone or a tablet. Responsiveness, app design and interaction with remote desktop is a significantly inferior experience to trying to control a natively mouse and keyboard interface remotely on another machine. I have a Melee Q setup with NINA and a iMate setup with Kstars /Ekos, and neither are anywhere as smooth as the ASIair on my iPad and my phone. Like

9.31

Ashraf AbuSara

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Gary JONES:
Ashraf AbuSara:
I am not aware of a native app to the iOS or android that can control Nina remotely without using remote desktop into a mini PC. Am I missing something?

Hi Ashraf,
No, there is no native iOS or Android app to access NINA remotely, but accessing NINA remotely works perfectly well using Microsoft Remote Desktop or the Google equivalent.

Using Remote Desktop is really no different to running a dedicated remote app like the ASIAir app - all the processing still runs on the mini PC, and the app just provides an interface to control it and to see what it is doing.

I've used Microsoft Remote Desktop on my Mac, iPhone and iPad ever since I started using NINA, and have never had any problems with it.

Typically, I use my desktop Mac to research targets and define my sequences, then switch to my iPad once Ive set up my gear and do flats, AutoFocus and PA, then just run the sequence and watch the images roll in.

Using a remote desktop is really different than using a native app on a phone or a tablet. Responsiveness, app design and interaction with remote desktop is a significantly inferior experience to trying to control a natively mouse and keyboard interface remotely on another machine. I have a Melee Q setup with NINA and a iMate setup with Kstars /Ekos, and neither are anywhere as smooth as the ASIair on my iPad and my phone.

9.31 Ashraf AbuSara ... · view views · 3 likes · Share link
Gary JONES: Brian Boyle: What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.? This is a genuine question... I really would love to know. I'll try to briefly answer Brian's question ... What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.? Let me begin by saying that ASIAir is a great product - for what it is, it works very well and is very inexpensive. I owned an ASIAir Pro, then updated to the AISAir Plus - so I can speak from experience. I've since sold both units, so any comparison I can make now relies on memory, but I'll do my best :- ASIAir Pros 1. Light, compact and very portable 2. Inexpensive 3. Very easy to use 4. Built-in power management and USB hub 5. Tiny size ASIAir Cons 1. Somewhat locked into the ZWO ecosystem. 2. Very awkward process for upgrading firmware. 3. Unreliable Wifi - it worked fine most of the time, but not always. 4. Poor documentation and poor technical support. 5. Very limited feature set. 6. The ASIAir app just never worked on Mac (even though ZWO claimed it did). 7. Does not support dew-heaters. 8. Could never get it to work via ethernet. 9. Very limited customisation - now way to do basic things like defining the format for filenames etc. NINA + PC - Pros 1. Supports all ZWO devices, without being locked into the ZWO ecosystem. 2. Supports ASCOM and INDI. 3. Lets you define sequences on your desktop - much easier than doing it on an iPhone or tablet. 4. Supports automatic lights/darks based on exposure or time. 5. Supports powerful 3rd party plugins such as : 3-point polar alignment; Horizon creator; Target planner; Hocus Focus; Synchronisation. 6. Lets you define file pathnames (I really wanted this so I could name files beginning with creation date/time rather than target name). 7. Can be run directly from the mini PC via HDMI, or via WiFI using a laptop, smartphone or tablet using Remote Desktop or similar. 8. Open source and free to use. 9. Very active developers and great technical support, plus a very active user community and great online support. 10. User-configurable user interface - run the features you need in separate windows. 11. Supports running multiple telescopes at the same time (great for dual-optic rigs). 12. It is no more difficult to learn than ASIAir. 13. It is very easy to control any aspect of your equipment via the sequencer - such as filter changes, autofocus etc. 14. It can run peripherals such as switching a laser on or off using an ASCOM interface. 15. If using a Power-Box, can power dew heaters. 16. Easy to upgrade the mini-PC if you need more processing power. 17. NINA has very nifty features like image scaling, aberration inspector, annotations and history inspector. NINA + PC - Cons 1. Requires a PC - but these can be bought for a few hundred dollars. 2. The 'advanced' sequencer is rather difficult to configure. 3. Requires a separate power controller. My Setup I run my gear from a little lithium power-pack, with my Eagle attached to the side, so it travels as a single, lightweight unit that powers my rig all night. I have one power cable + one USB running from the power-pack to the mount and telescope, so wiring is very simple. This setup lets me easily switch the controller between different telescopes, rather than having the controller bolted to the telescope, as I did with my ASIAir. It even lets me run multiple rigs from the same controller at the same time, and even lets me run two telescopes at the same time on the same mount, using NINA's Synchronization plugin to coordinate dithering. Useability In terms of usability, I recall the ASIAir app being somewhat confusing at first, with many aspects of the user interface poorly conceived and unintuitive. But like all such things, I became accustomed to it over time and found it easy to set up and use most of the time, even though it was somewhat limited. Similarly with NINA, at first it seemed overwhelming, but with a little practice I found the interface very logical and intuitive (with the exception of the advanced sequencer), and it opened up many imaging opportunities that were simply not possible on the ASIAir. Cost A new ASIAir Plus with 256GB storage costs AUD 699. A new Mini PC can be purchased for about AUD 200, and a Powerbox Astro for about AUD 656, so the total investment is about AUD 865. So the PC + NINA solution will cost about AUD 166 more than the ASIAir solution - not a great deal money. The Question I suppose the basic question is this ... if I could go back in time, would I buy the ASIAir again ? My answer is no - definitely not. In a heartbeat I would invest a little more cash in a mini PC + Powerbox, and enjoy the extra power and flexibility of NINA. I hope all that helps Gary Gary, the ASIair's biggest advantage is having a native app that controls the ASIair from a phone or a tablet with the responsiveness of any other native app on your phone. I am also not sure why you say th ASIair does not support dew heaters? It most certainly does. In fact that is also a great feature. You can actually control the dew heater power. Other than getting an Eagle, there are really no mini PCs that can do that and control the PWM to dew heaters like the ASIair does. The only NINA feature that you mentioned that I miss on the ASIair is custom horizons, and filter offsets. Everything else does not materially improve upon my current ASIair run astrophotography acquisition experience. Having two boxes (mini-pc + power box) to connect up and cable manage instead of one with the ASIair is also a step back, especially for those of us backyard imagers that need to setup and break down at the end of each session. Edited ... Like

9.31

Ashraf AbuSara

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Gary JONES:
Brian Boyle:
What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.? This is a genuine question... I really would love to know.

I'll try to briefly answer Brian's question ... What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.?

Let me begin by saying that ASIAir is a great product - for what it is, it works very well and is very inexpensive. I owned an ASIAir Pro, then updated to the AISAir Plus - so I can speak from experience. I've since sold both units, so any comparison I can make now relies on memory, but I'll do my best :-

ASIAir Pros
1. Light, compact and very portable
2. Inexpensive
3. Very easy to use
4. Built-in power management and USB hub
5. Tiny size

ASIAir Cons
1. Somewhat locked into the ZWO ecosystem.
2. Very awkward process for upgrading firmware.
3. Unreliable Wifi - it worked fine most of the time, but not always.
4. Poor documentation and poor technical support.
5. Very limited feature set.
6. The ASIAir app just never worked on Mac (even though ZWO claimed it did).
7. Does not support dew-heaters.
8. Could never get it to work via ethernet.
9. Very limited customisation - now way to do basic things like defining the format for filenames etc.

NINA + PC - Pros
1. Supports all ZWO devices, without being locked into the ZWO ecosystem.
2. Supports ASCOM and INDI.
3. Lets you define sequences on your desktop - much easier than doing it on an iPhone or tablet.
4. Supports automatic lights/darks based on exposure or time.
5. Supports powerful 3rd party plugins such as : 3-point polar alignment; Horizon creator; Target planner; Hocus Focus; Synchronisation.
6. Lets you define file pathnames (I really wanted this so I could name files beginning with creation date/time rather than target name).
7. Can be run directly from the mini PC via HDMI, or via WiFI using a laptop, smartphone or tablet using Remote Desktop or similar.
8. Open source and free to use.
9. Very active developers and great technical support, plus a very active user community and great online support.
10. User-configurable user interface - run the features you need in separate windows.
11. Supports running multiple telescopes at the same time (great for dual-optic rigs).
12. It is no more difficult to learn than ASIAir.
13. It is very easy to control any aspect of your equipment via the sequencer - such as filter changes, autofocus etc.
14. It can run peripherals such as switching a laser on or off using an ASCOM interface.
15. If using a Power-Box, can power dew heaters.
16. Easy to upgrade the mini-PC if you need more processing power.
17. NINA has very nifty features like image scaling, aberration inspector, annotations and history inspector.

NINA + PC - Cons
1. Requires a PC - but these can be bought for a few hundred dollars.
2. The 'advanced' sequencer is rather difficult to configure.
3. Requires a separate power controller.

My Setup
I run my gear from a little lithium power-pack, with my Eagle attached to the side, so it travels as a single, lightweight unit that powers my rig all night.
I have one power cable + one USB running from the power-pack to the mount and telescope, so wiring is very simple.
This setup lets me easily switch the controller between different telescopes, rather than having the controller bolted to the telescope, as I did with my ASIAir. It even lets me run multiple rigs from the same controller at the same time, and even lets me run two telescopes at the same time on the same mount, using NINA's Synchronization plugin to coordinate dithering.

Useability
In terms of usability, I recall the ASIAir app being somewhat confusing at first, with many aspects of the user interface poorly conceived and unintuitive. But like all such things, I became accustomed to it over time and found it easy to set up and use most of the time, even though it was somewhat limited.

Similarly with NINA, at first it seemed overwhelming, but with a little practice I found the interface very logical and intuitive (with the exception of the advanced sequencer), and it opened up many imaging opportunities that were simply not possible on the ASIAir.

Cost
A new ASIAir Plus with 256GB storage costs AUD 699.
A new Mini PC can be purchased for about AUD 200, and a Powerbox Astro for about AUD 656, so the total investment is about AUD 865.

So the PC + NINA solution will cost about AUD 166 more than the ASIAir solution - not a great deal money.

The Question
I suppose the basic question is this ... if I could go back in time, would I buy the ASIAir again ?

My answer is no - definitely not.

In a heartbeat I would invest a little more cash in a mini PC + Powerbox, and enjoy the extra power and flexibility of NINA.

I hope all that helps

Gary

Gary, the ASIair's biggest advantage is having a native app that controls the ASIair from a phone or a tablet with the responsiveness of any other native app on your phone.

I am also not sure why you say th ASIair does not support dew heaters? It most certainly does. In fact that is also a great feature. You can actually control the dew heater power. Other than getting an Eagle, there are really no mini PCs that can do that and control the PWM to dew heaters like the ASIair does.

The only NINA feature that you mentioned that I miss on the ASIair is custom horizons, and filter offsets.

Everything else does not materially improve upon my current ASIair run astrophotography acquisition experience.

Having two boxes (mini-pc + power box) to connect up and cable manage instead of one with the ASIair is also a step back, especially for those of us backyard imagers that need to setup and break down at the end of each session.

Edited ...

1.81 Michael Nemetz ... · view views · Share link
Ashraf AbuSara: Gary, the ASIair's biggest advantage is having a native app that controls the ASIair from a phone or a tablet with the responsiveness of any other native app on your phone. I am also not sure why you say th ASIair does not support dew heaters? It most certainly does. In fact that is also a great feature. You can actually control the dew heater power. Other than getting an Eagle, there are really no mini PCs that can do that and control the PWM to dew heaters like the ASIair does. The only NINA feature that you mentioned that I miss on the ASIair is custom horizons, and filter offsets. Everything else does not materially improve upon my current ASIair run astrophotography acquisition experience. Or you get a Stellarmate Pro, that does have an app, power and dew heater controllers and does not force you to use ZWO devices. For the dew heater control on the ASIAir, do you speak of USB dew heaters or does the ASIAir have 12V dew heater ports? Like

1.81

Michael Nemetz

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Ashraf AbuSara:
Gary, the ASIair's biggest advantage is having a native app that controls the ASIair from a phone or a tablet with the responsiveness of any other native app on your phone.

I am also not sure why you say th ASIair does not support dew heaters? It most certainly does. In fact that is also a great feature. You can actually control the dew heater power. Other than getting an Eagle, there are really no mini PCs that can do that and control the PWM to dew heaters like the ASIair does.

The only NINA feature that you mentioned that I miss on the ASIair is custom horizons, and filter offsets.

Everything else does not materially improve upon my current ASIair run astrophotography acquisition experience.

Or you get a Stellarmate Pro, that does have an app, power and dew heater controllers and does not force you to use ZWO devices.

For the dew heater control on the ASIAir, do you speak of USB dew heaters or does the ASIAir have 12V dew heater ports?

9.31 Ashraf AbuSara ... · view views · Share link
Michael Nemetz: Ashraf AbuSara: Gary, the ASIair's biggest advantage is having a native app that controls the ASIair from a phone or a tablet with the responsiveness of any other native app on your phone. I am also not sure why you say th ASIair does not support dew heaters? It most certainly does. In fact that is also a great feature. You can actually control the dew heater power. Other than getting an Eagle, there are really no mini PCs that can do that and control the PWM to dew heaters like the ASIair does. The only NINA feature that you mentioned that I miss on the ASIair is custom horizons, and filter offsets. Everything else does not materially improve upon my current ASIair run astrophotography acquisition experience. Or you get a Stellarmate Pro, that does have an app, power and dew heater controllers and does not force you to use ZWO devices. For the dew heater control on the ASIAir, do you speak of USB dew heaters or does the ASIAir have 12V dew heater ports? I actually have a Stellermate pro. I purchased it a couple of weeks ago. The app is extremely unpolished and some simple tasks are broken. For example as of now I can't move a sequence to a Job. GPS is a mess, and settings are not being saved by Ekos. I am still waiting for more updates but right now it is only useable for me through VNC, not the app. On the ASIair I connect my dew heaters to one of the four 12V DC out 5.5x2.1 ports. If you have an RCA dew heater then you can use an RCA>5.5x2.1 wire converter. Or you can just buy dew heaters that have 5.5x2.1 cable natively. In the ASIair you specify on the power management that the port is connected to a Dew Heater, and that allows you to control the percentage power you want to feed the dew heater. Edited ... Like

9.31

Ashraf AbuSara

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Michael Nemetz:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Gary, the ASIair's biggest advantage is having a native app that controls the ASIair from a phone or a tablet with the responsiveness of any other native app on your phone.

I am also not sure why you say th ASIair does not support dew heaters? It most certainly does. In fact that is also a great feature. You can actually control the dew heater power. Other than getting an Eagle, there are really no mini PCs that can do that and control the PWM to dew heaters like the ASIair does.

The only NINA feature that you mentioned that I miss on the ASIair is custom horizons, and filter offsets.

Everything else does not materially improve upon my current ASIair run astrophotography acquisition experience.

Or you get a Stellarmate Pro, that does have an app, power and dew heater controllers and does not force you to use ZWO devices.

For the dew heater control on the ASIAir, do you speak of USB dew heaters or does the ASIAir have 12V dew heater ports?

I actually have a Stellermate pro. I purchased it a couple of weeks ago. The app is extremely unpolished and some simple tasks are broken. For example as of now I can't move a sequence to a Job. GPS is a mess, and settings are not being saved by Ekos. I am still waiting for more updates but right now it is only useable for me through VNC, not the app.

On the ASIair I connect my dew heaters to one of the four 12V DC out 5.5x2.1 ports. If you have an RCA dew heater then you can use an RCA>5.5x2.1 wire converter. Or you can just buy dew heaters that have 5.5x2.1 cable natively. In the ASIair you specify on the power management that the port is connected to a Dew Heater, and that allows you to control the percentage power you want to feed the dew heater.

Edited ...

1.81 Michael Nemetz ... · view views · Share link
Ashraf AbuSara: I actually have a Stellermate pro. I purchased it a couple of weeks ago. The app is extremely unpolished and some simple tasks are broken. For example as of now I can't move a sequence to a Job. GPS is a mess, and settings are not being saved by Ekos. I am still waiting for more updates but right now it is only useable for me through VNC, not the app. Do you know Cuiv the lazy geek on YouTube? He also has a Stellarmate Pro, he is extremely helpful, probably he knows some workarounds. He es also in contact with the Stellarmate team for improvements. Sometimes such basic problems are because of being used to a different device and the way there is different and causes problems on another product. Good luck! Like

1.81

Michael Nemetz

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Ashraf AbuSara:
I actually have a Stellermate pro. I purchased it a couple of weeks ago. The app is extremely unpolished and some simple tasks are broken. For example as of now I can't move a sequence to a Job. GPS is a mess, and settings are not being saved by Ekos. I am still waiting for more updates but right now it is only useable for me through VNC, not the app.

Do you know Cuiv the lazy geek on YouTube? He also has a Stellarmate Pro, he is extremely helpful, probably he knows some workarounds. He es also in contact with the Stellarmate team for improvements.
Sometimes such basic problems are because of being used to a different device and the way there is different and causes problems on another product. Good luck!

9.31 Ashraf AbuSara ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
Michael Nemetz: Ashraf AbuSara: I actually have a Stellermate pro. I purchased it a couple of weeks ago. The app is extremely unpolished and some simple tasks are broken. For example as of now I can't move a sequence to a Job. GPS is a mess, and settings are not being saved by Ekos. I am still waiting for more updates but right now it is only useable for me through VNC, not the app. Do you know Cuiv the lazy geek on YouTube? He also has a Stellarmate Pro, he is extremely helpful, probably he knows some workarounds. He es also in contact with the Stellarmate team for improvements. Sometimes such basic problems are because of being used to a different device and the way there is different and causes problems on another product. Good luck! Yes I actually purchased that product based on his review. I am not giving up on it yet and intend to make it work, but it has a long ways to go. Like

9.31

Ashraf AbuSara

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Michael Nemetz:
Ashraf AbuSara:
I actually have a Stellermate pro. I purchased it a couple of weeks ago. The app is extremely unpolished and some simple tasks are broken. For example as of now I can't move a sequence to a Job. GPS is a mess, and settings are not being saved by Ekos. I am still waiting for more updates but right now it is only useable for me through VNC, not the app.

Do you know Cuiv the lazy geek on YouTube? He also has a Stellarmate Pro, he is extremely helpful, probably he knows some workarounds. He es also in contact with the Stellarmate team for improvements.
Sometimes such basic problems are because of being used to a different device and the way there is different and causes problems on another product. Good luck!

Yes I actually purchased that product based on his review. I am not giving up on it yet and intend to make it work, but it has a long ways to go.

5.76 Dave Rust ... · view views · 2 likes · Share link
I have a different experience with GP's con list. It's too easy to conclude that ASIair is somehow a faulty product. It is more intended as a simplified version of a more complex system in order to favor an immediately satisfactory experience. As such, some users outgrow it faster than others. To GP's credit, we all have unique experiences with any gear, and maybe he and I represent different ends of the spectrum. Notes below... ASIAir Cons 1. Somewhat locked into the ZWO ecosystem. True. However, this makes the user experience more problem free, as coders don't have to anticipate every permutation of hardware and software host combinations. That's one reason the product is great for beginners; they don't have to chase down proper drivers or figure out why their version of OS doesn't play nice. It just works. BTW, only the ASIair and its app are proprietary. If one replaces the ASIair with a USB hub (Pegasus has some nice ones), NINA will control all of the other ASI hardware (cameras, filters, focus, etc.). 2. Very awkward process for upgrading firmware. Not my experience. A couple times a year I turn on my gear and am notified of a firmware upgrade. I say OK and it installs on all device that are turned on within 60 seconds. I relaunch and begin my session. 3. Unreliable Wifi - it worked fine most of the time, but not always. True. true. In fact, GP is too kind. I got a wifi extender the size of a credit card (plugs into the ethernet port) and very reliable now. 4. Poor documentation and poor technical support. I've not had need for docs or tech support, so can't confirm. 5. Very limited feature set. I've looked at larger feature sets, such as those listed with NINA. I don't desire many of those. ASIair shrewdly includes probably 75% of what other products like NINA can do, and does so in a fashion that makes it delightful to use. Avoids what can be an overwhelming bloatware syndrome. Of course, there may be a point where I'd like to try NINA's additional features. Some of those have to do with controlling remote observatory stations and rotating dome roofs...things I'll probably never have the chance to try. 6. The ASIAir app just never worked on Mac (even though ZWO claimed it did). Clarification—ASI apps work fantastic on iPad and iPhones. They are natively designed for those devices. However, there is ASI studio suite of apps coded for Mac laptops/desktops. It has always been a kind of afterthought, in my view. I've never needed it, as I am more anxious to move beyond a laptop to something more portable and universal for my sessions. Using portable devices means a totally wifi experience, with no cables needed to run outside. Especially useful in the winter with the scope outside the car. I can leave the iPad, go outside, and make changes with my phone. 7. Does not support dew-heaters. Some have reported inadequate amps for this role. They are probably right, as I think the amp limitation is from the internal Raspberry Pi, not anything do do with ZWO's modifications. Who cares? I use the more flexible Pegasus controller for this anyway. It does a great job running a Celestron ring and a guidescope velcro strap. BTW, applying dew control has nothing to do with NINA or ASIair software attributes. That's a hardware issue. Dew control from scope-mounted image managers vary in features, as most users find external control superior anyway (there is a narrow range of dew compensation that will vaporize the dew and not distort lenses). 8. Could never get it to work via ethernet. I don't understand this one. I have two ASIair and they connect immediately by 100ft. ethernet cable connected to my house wifi mesh. Ethernet is my backup anyway, as I prefer an all-wifi solution. I admit I'v never tried connecting the ethernet directly to my laptop...ASIair is recognized by introducing the ethernet into the closest module of the house wifi system. 9. Very limited customisation - now way to do basic things like defining the format for filenames etc. True. I tried once to add info that wasn't already defined without luck. For me it was a minor annoyance quickly forgotten. The built-in file naming convention contains almost all critical info., so I'm content with that. - - - - Edited ... Like

5.76

Dave Rust

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I have a different experience with GP's con list. It's too easy to conclude that ASIair is somehow a faulty product. It is more intended as a simplified version of a more complex system in order to favor an immediately satisfactory experience. As such, some users outgrow it faster than others. To GP's credit, we all have unique experiences with any gear, and maybe he and I represent different ends of the spectrum.

Notes below...

ASIAir Cons
1. Somewhat locked into the ZWO ecosystem.
True. However, this makes the user experience more problem free, as coders don't have to anticipate every permutation of hardware and software host combinations. That's one reason the product is great for beginners; they don't have to chase down proper drivers or figure out why their version of OS doesn't play nice. It just works. BTW, only the ASIair and its app are proprietary. If one replaces the ASIair with a USB hub (Pegasus has some nice ones), NINA will control all of the other ASI hardware (cameras, filters, focus, etc.).

2. Very awkward process for upgrading firmware.
Not my experience. A couple times a year I turn on my gear and am notified of a firmware upgrade. I say OK and it installs on all device that are turned on within 60 seconds. I relaunch and begin my session.

3. Unreliable Wifi - it worked fine most of the time, but not always.
True. true. In fact, GP is too kind. I got a wifi extender the size of a credit card (plugs into the ethernet port) and very reliable now.

4. Poor documentation and poor technical support.
I've not had need for docs or tech support, so can't confirm.

5. Very limited feature set.
I've looked at larger feature sets, such as those listed with NINA. I don't desire many of those. ASIair shrewdly includes probably 75% of what other products like NINA can do, and does so in a fashion that makes it delightful to use. Avoids what can be an overwhelming bloatware syndrome. Of course, there may be a point where I'd like to try NINA's additional features. Some of those have to do with controlling remote observatory stations and rotating dome roofs...things I'll probably never have the chance to try.

6. The ASIAir app just never worked on Mac (even though ZWO claimed it did).
Clarification—ASI apps work fantastic on iPad and iPhones. They are natively designed for those devices. However, there is ASI studio suite of apps coded for Mac laptops/desktops. It has always been a kind of afterthought, in my view. I've never needed it, as I am more anxious to move beyond a laptop to something more portable and universal for my sessions. Using portable devices means a totally wifi experience, with no cables needed to run outside. Especially useful in the winter with the scope outside the car. I can leave the iPad, go outside, and make changes with my phone.

7. Does not support dew-heaters.
Some have reported inadequate amps for this role. They are probably right, as I think the amp limitation is from the internal Raspberry Pi, not anything do do with ZWO's modifications. Who cares? I use the more flexible Pegasus controller for this anyway. It does a great job running a Celestron ring and a guidescope velcro strap. BTW, applying dew control has nothing to do with NINA or ASIair software attributes. That's a hardware issue. Dew control from scope-mounted image managers vary in features, as most users find external control superior anyway (there is a narrow range of dew compensation that will vaporize the dew and not distort lenses).

8. Could never get it to work via ethernet.
I don't understand this one. I have two ASIair and they connect immediately by 100ft. ethernet cable connected to my house wifi mesh. Ethernet is my backup anyway, as I prefer an all-wifi solution. I admit I'v never tried connecting the ethernet directly to my laptop...ASIair is recognized by introducing the ethernet into the closest module of the house wifi system.

9. Very limited customisation - now way to do basic things like defining the format for filenames etc.
True. I tried once to add info that wasn't already defined without luck. For me it was a minor annoyance quickly forgotten. The built-in file naming convention contains almost all critical info., so I'm content with that.

- - - -

Edited ...

6.90 Gary JONES ... · view views · Share link
Ashraf AbuSara: Gary, the ASIair's biggest advantage is having a native app that controls the ASIair from a phone or a tablet with the responsiveness of any other native app on your phone. I am also not sure why you say th ASIair does not support dew heaters? It most certainly does. In fact that is also a great feature. You can actually control the dew heater power. Other than getting an Eagle, there are really no mini PCs that can do that and control the PWM to dew heaters like the ASIair does. The only NINA feature that you mentioned that I miss on the ASIair is custom horizons, and filter offsets. Everything else does not materially improve upon my current ASIair run astrophotography acquisition experience. Having two boxes (mini-pc + power box) to connect up and cable manage instead of one with the ASIair is also a step back, especially for those of us backyard imagers that need to setup and break down at the end of each session. Hi Ashraf, I'm pleased to say I've had a more positive experience regarding controlling NINA via Remote Desktop ... I run NINA on an Eagle (and old v4), and connect to it via Remote Desktop on my Mac or iPad. There is no lag and no lack of responsiveness - it is indistinguishable from running NINA natively on the Mac, including viewing full-frame images. It is vastly superior to using the ASIAir app on an iPad. Admittedly, I have a high-end Mac Studio and a very fast network, which makes a difference. The other option is to run the mini-PC directly to a monitor, or on a laptop in monitor mode. Like you, I don't have a permanent setup - I set up and break down all my gear every night. And although I use an Eagle, which has multiple USB ports and power ports, I only use one USB Port, and power my gear via a single lead from my power-pack - not the Eagle power ports - because they are too sensitive to power spikes and shut down every time I power up my mount. So it's really no different to running a mini-PC on its own. In terms of the dew heaters - I don't recall any way to modulate the output power of the 12v outputs, although I'm writing these comments from memory and ZWO never published a User Guide for the ASIAir Plus, only the Pro, so I have no way of checking. However, many users lament the fact that the ASIAir doesn't power dew heaters very well - see this thread on AstroBin. The ASIAir is rated at a total of 6A maximum, which can be a bit of a stretch when you're running all your regular gear and cooling the sensor, which can consume 3A on its own - whereas the PowerBox is rated at 10 amps, and has ports dedicated to Dew Heaters, all of which can be controlled from NINA using an ASCOM driver. One of the features I really like in NINA is the ability to research targets, filter them based on rising/setting/transit times, constellation, angular size, magnitude and type, and send selected targets directly to the sequencer, all on my desktop Mac, rather than on an iPad, without having to fire up my imaging setup. You just can't do that using ASIAir. PA and auto-focus are also vastly superior on NINA. You can also pull various operations into separate resizable windows, which lets you display what's important to you at the time. I can control NINA from my MacBook, with an iPad on each side, one iPad displaying camera parameters, AF and PHD while it does auto guiding, captured images and image history on the MacBook, with the sequencer and aberration inspector on the other iPad. Now that might sound like going a bit too far, but it has enabled me to vastly improve my image capture, and it illustrates the superiority of NINA as an imaging platform. As others have said, it's horses for courses ... ASIAir is a great device that lets you capture images with a minimum of setup and configuration - however its simplicity is also its main limiting factor, which is why I eventually switched to something more feature-rich. Edited ... Like

6.90

Gary JONES

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Ashraf AbuSara:
Gary, the ASIair's biggest advantage is having a native app that controls the ASIair from a phone or a tablet with the responsiveness of any other native app on your phone.

I am also not sure why you say th ASIair does not support dew heaters? It most certainly does. In fact that is also a great feature. You can actually control the dew heater power. Other than getting an Eagle, there are really no mini PCs that can do that and control the PWM to dew heaters like the ASIair does.

The only NINA feature that you mentioned that I miss on the ASIair is custom horizons, and filter offsets.

Everything else does not materially improve upon my current ASIair run astrophotography acquisition experience.

Having two boxes (mini-pc + power box) to connect up and cable manage instead of one with the ASIair is also a step back, especially for those of us backyard imagers that need to setup and break down at the end of each session.

Hi Ashraf,
I'm pleased to say I've had a more positive experience regarding controlling NINA via Remote Desktop ...

I run NINA on an Eagle (and old v4), and connect to it via Remote Desktop on my Mac or iPad. There is no lag and no lack of responsiveness - it is indistinguishable from running NINA natively on the Mac, including viewing full-frame images. It is vastly superior to using the ASIAir app on an iPad.

Admittedly, I have a high-end Mac Studio and a very fast network, which makes a difference.

The other option is to run the mini-PC directly to a monitor, or on a laptop in monitor mode.

Like you, I don't have a permanent setup - I set up and break down all my gear every night. And although I use an Eagle, which has multiple USB ports and power ports, I only use one USB Port, and power my gear via a single lead from my power-pack - not the Eagle power ports - because they are too sensitive to power spikes and shut down every time I power up my mount. So it's really no different to running a mini-PC on its own.

In terms of the dew heaters - I don't recall any way to modulate the output power of the 12v outputs, although I'm writing these comments from memory and ZWO never published a User Guide for the ASIAir Plus, only the Pro, so I have no way of checking. However, many users lament the fact that the ASIAir doesn't power dew heaters very well - see this thread on AstroBin. The ASIAir is rated at a total of 6A maximum, which can be a bit of a stretch when you're running all your regular gear and cooling the sensor, which can consume 3A on its own - whereas the PowerBox is rated at 10 amps, and has ports dedicated to Dew Heaters, all of which can be controlled from NINA using an ASCOM driver.

One of the features I really like in NINA is the ability to research targets, filter them based on rising/setting/transit times, constellation, angular size, magnitude and type, and send selected targets directly to the sequencer, all on my desktop Mac, rather than on an iPad, without having to fire up my imaging setup. You just can't do that using ASIAir.

PA and auto-focus are also vastly superior on NINA. You can also pull various operations into separate resizable windows, which lets you display what's important to you at the time. I can control NINA from my MacBook, with an iPad on each side, one iPad displaying camera parameters, AF and PHD while it does auto guiding, captured images and image history on the MacBook, with the sequencer and aberration inspector on the other iPad. Now that might sound like going a bit too far, but it has enabled me to vastly improve my image capture, and it illustrates the superiority of NINA as an imaging platform.

As others have said, it's horses for courses ... ASIAir is a great device that lets you capture images with a minimum of setup and configuration - however its simplicity is also its main limiting factor, which is why I eventually switched to something more feature-rich.

Edited ...

2.41 karolbe ... · view views · 3 likes · Share link
Gary JONES: Brian Boyle: What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.? This is a genuine question... I really would love to know. Some clarifications: ASIAir Cons 1. Somewhat locked into the ZWO ecosystem. 2. Very awkward process for upgrading firmware. Not really true, the upgrade process is super simple and safe. Never heard about any issues with that, and it happens that every astrophotographer I personally know uses AsiAir. 3. Unreliable Wifi - it worked fine most of the time, but not always. There are cheap ways to fix this in case of Asiair Pro (e.g. by using 25USD TPlink nano router). AsiAir Plus (the latest one) has an external antenna and Wifi range is excellent. 4. Poor documentation and poor technical support. Maybe, but it is so simple to use that personally never had need for that. Forums are available if you run into some problems. 5. Very limited feature set. "Very"? Like, you cannot take a good image, or...? I know quite a few IOTDs that were done with Asiair :-) 6. The ASIAir app just never worked on Mac (even though ZWO claimed it did). It was never intended to be run on a Mac. The application is iOS and android native. You can use some emulators etc, but what is the point of that? 7. Does not support dew-heaters. Of course it does support dew heaters... 8. Could never get it to work via ethernet. Interesting, perhaps you did something wrong, but it does work over Ethernet for me just fine, I only plugged in the cable...In fact this is how I use AsiAir pro, I have it connected with a cable to the mentioned TP Link nano router to extend the Wi-Fi range. 9. Very limited customisation - now way to do basic things like defining the format for filenames etc. Of course you can define format for a file name, but in general, yes, it is more limited than Nina. This is pretty obvious, the reason AsiAir exists is not to complete with SGP or Nina in number of features. NINA + PC - Pros 3. Lets you define sequences on your desktop - much easier than doing it on an iPhone or tablet. Much easier? I much prefer to sit on a couch and use a tablet for that. Have you ever created a mosaic on AsiAir? It is pure pleasure to use. 4. Supports automatic lights/darks based on exposure or time. Asiair supports it too. 5. Supports powerful 3rd party plugins such as : 3-point polar alignment; Horizon creator; Target planner; Hocus Focus; Synchronisation. You do not need 3-p-p because PA alignment in AsiAir was excellent from the start. For the rest, see point 9 above. 7. Can be run directly from the mini PC via HDMI, or via WiFI using a laptop, smartphone or tablet using Remote Desktop or similar. The whole idea of Asiair is to not be bothered with some minipc with Windows, it is to be able to e.g. power it from a small powerbank for the whole night if you are travelling. 9. Very active developers and great technical support, plus a very active user community and great online support. There is an active Asiair community on FB and the ZWO website. Like

2.41

karolbe

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Gary JONES:
Brian Boyle:
What am I missing by not using N.I.N.A.? This is a genuine question... I really would love to know.

Some clarifications:

ASIAir Cons
1. Somewhat locked into the ZWO ecosystem.
2. Very awkward process for upgrading firmware.

Not really true, the upgrade process is super simple and safe. Never heard about any issues with that, and it happens that every astrophotographer I personally know uses AsiAir.

3. Unreliable Wifi - it worked fine most of the time, but not always.

There are cheap ways to fix this in case of Asiair Pro (e.g. by using 25USD TPlink nano router). AsiAir Plus (the latest one) has an external antenna and Wifi range is excellent.

4. Poor documentation and poor technical support.

Maybe, but it is so simple to use that personally never had need for that. Forums are available if you run into some problems.

5. Very limited feature set.

"Very"? Like, you cannot take a good image, or...? I know quite a few IOTDs that were done with Asiair :-)

6. The ASIAir app just never worked on Mac (even though ZWO claimed it did).

It was never intended to be run on a Mac. The application is iOS and android native. You can use some emulators etc, but what is the point of that?

7. Does not support dew-heaters.

Of course it does support dew heaters...

8. Could never get it to work via ethernet.

Interesting, perhaps you did something wrong, but it does work over Ethernet for me just fine, I only plugged in the cable...In fact this is how I use AsiAir pro, I have it connected with a cable to the mentioned TP Link nano router to extend the Wi-Fi range.

9. Very limited customisation - now way to do basic things like defining the format for filenames etc.

Of course you can define format for a file name, but in general, yes, it is more limited than Nina. This is pretty obvious, the reason AsiAir exists is not to complete with SGP or Nina in number of features.

NINA + PC - Pros

3. Lets you define sequences on your desktop - much easier than doing it on an iPhone or tablet.

Much easier? I much prefer to sit on a couch and use a tablet for that. Have you ever created a mosaic on AsiAir? It is pure pleasure to use.

4. Supports automatic lights/darks based on exposure or time.

Asiair supports it too.

5. Supports powerful 3rd party plugins such as : 3-point polar alignment; Horizon creator; Target planner; Hocus Focus; Synchronisation.

You do not need 3-p-p because PA alignment in AsiAir was excellent from the start. For the rest, see point 9 above.

7. Can be run directly from the mini PC via HDMI, or via WiFI using a laptop, smartphone or tablet using Remote Desktop or similar.

The whole idea of Asiair is to not be bothered with some minipc with Windows, it is to be able to e.g. power it from a small powerbank for the whole night if you are travelling.

9. Very active developers and great technical support, plus a very active user community and great online support.

There is an active Asiair community on FB and the ZWO website.

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Let ZWO ASIAIR die? ZWO ASIAIR · Robert Morgenstern · ... · 76 · 4381 · 1

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