RedCat51 and Undersampling William Optics Redcat 51 III · DavesView · ... · 30 · 607 · 0

dkamen 7.44
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Basically you must think of detail relative to the whole image. Even with a smaller sensor such as the IMX533, the Redcat gives a field of view that is 2.58 degrees or about nine thousand arcseconds across. Details smaller than 3-4 arcseconds simply do not matter. Even on print, they are really tiny. Might as well use a magnifying lens to inspect the pictures in a book, you will see there are only dots of cyan, magenta, yellow and black. Does it matter? Of course not smile
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sn2006gy 3.61
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DavesView:
Byron Miller:
1 pixel every 3 frames? that’s not enough dithering to do anything..   You should increase the dither to 3-6 pixels and more often.


There are only two other choices in 'more often', every frame or every other frame. I'll give three pixels a shot and see, but I don't think I want to dither every frame, or do I? Seems like a lot of guiding recovery to me, although mine recovers pretty quickly, within a few seconds. Any other's opinions on that subject?

Dithering is guider driven, it's mount backlash recovery/settling time you want to give space for but it's also super minimal on red cat (or non-existent if a good mount since these things even with image train are so small and centered compared to longer focals).   You don't need much recovery since even a lousy RMS is within a single pixel in our average seeing and resolving power.

Since we're so under sampled, I dither every sub no matter NB or Broadband.  Dithering will reduce fixed pattern noise and improve the effectiveness of stacking (rejection and normalization) and in mitigating read noise.   1 pixel is NOT enough to do any of this and could introduce a pattern. I don't even think 3 pixels is enough to overcome fix pattern noise.

make sure you dither on RA AND DEC, otherwise you will introduce walking noise.
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DavesView 2.39
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Byron Miller:
Dithering is guider driven, it's mount backlash recovery/settling time you want to give space for but it's also super minimal on red cat (or non-existent if a good mount since these things even with image train are so small and centered compared to longer focals).   You don't need much recovery since even a lousy RMS is within a single pixel in our average seeing and resolving power.

Since we're so under sampled, I dither every sub no matter NB or Broadband.  Dithering will reduce fixed pattern noise and improve the effectiveness of stacking (rejection and normalization) and in mitigating read noise.   1 pixel is NOT enough to do any of this and could introduce a pattern. I don't even think 3 pixels is enough to overcome fix pattern noise.

make sure you dither on RA AND DEC, otherwise you will introduce walking noise.


You guys know more than me. On my next outing I'm going to dither every shot at 5 pixels. This makes me wonder about something I've noticed in many of my images. After running NoiseX, there is a hint of mottling throughout the background that I have been dealing with. To get rid of it I use SelectiveColorCalibration/background. I wonder if this a product of not enough dither. But I am in a B7 sky with a huge soccer complex an eighth of a mile away.
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sn2006gy 3.61
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DavesView:
Byron Miller:
Dithering is guider driven, it's mount backlash recovery/settling time you want to give space for but it's also super minimal on red cat (or non-existent if a good mount since these things even with image train are so small and centered compared to longer focals).   You don't need much recovery since even a lousy RMS is within a single pixel in our average seeing and resolving power.

Since we're so under sampled, I dither every sub no matter NB or Broadband.  Dithering will reduce fixed pattern noise and improve the effectiveness of stacking (rejection and normalization) and in mitigating read noise.   1 pixel is NOT enough to do any of this and could introduce a pattern. I don't even think 3 pixels is enough to overcome fix pattern noise.

make sure you dither on RA AND DEC, otherwise you will introduce walking noise.


You guys know more than me. On my next outing I'm going to dither every shot at 5 pixels. This makes me wonder about something I've noticed in many of my images. After running NoiseX, there is a hint of mottling throughout the background that I have been dealing with. To get rid of it I use SelectiveColorCalibration/background. I wonder if this a product of not enough dither. But I am in a B7 sky with a huge soccer complex an eighth of a mile away.

It wouldn't hurt to try a good dither to try and smooth out noise, but with a soccer complex nearby i presume its light pollution gradient more than anything.
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whwang 15.16
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astronomy.tools is wrong.  it only considers seeing, but for small scopes like redcat, diffraction and aberration is way more important than seeing.
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CCDnOES 8.34
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DavesView:
There are only two other choices in 'more often', every frame or every other frame. I'll give three pixels a shot and see, but I don't think I want to dither every frame, or do I? Seems like a lot of guiding recovery to me, although mine recovers pretty quickly, within a few seconds. Any other's opinions on that subject?


Not dithering every frame is a time saver but always at least a bit sub-optimal. Do you want faster or do you want to squeeze every bit of advantage out of your process that you can in terms of quality?

Yeah, I know someone will come along and say that dither every frame is a waste. My experience says otherwise.

To be honest, at focal lengths under about 600 mm a great mount (think AP, Planewave, SB, 10 Micron) that will allow dither by mount unguided and using a model will save one way more time than skipping dithers.
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