Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
1) The motors do not have encoders, so you can lose where you are if you accidentally zero things out in the software, or if the motors get moved while the unit is powered off. I believe Josh told me that it would be cost prohibitive to have encoders, especially for bringing a novel product like this to the market. So you need to be mindful of this.... My scope rode on a pallet across the USA for a week in trucks, and all the vibration and weight of my camera caused the motors on top (as it was positioned) to spool out. I noticed something was way off when I first logged in when tilt was way worse than i expected. Even though I had zeroed it out, the motors moved a bit. I was worried about something like this happening and concerned that it would be difficult to address, but it turned out to be super simple. I asked the tech to measure the thickness of the two lower plates with a set of calipers, and discovered that the upper part was 1mm wider than the lower. So yeah, 1mm of tilt! Thats a problem. It took maybe 10 minutes of the tech taking measurements, and me making some adjustments to get it all flat again. Then I zeroed it out and had a new starting point. Problem solved. Given this experience, would you recommend zeroing out before shipping and restoring the original settings once installed (dialing in tilt from there, of course)?
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Jeff Ridder:
Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
1) The motors do not have encoders, so you can lose where you are if you accidentally zero things out in the software, or if the motors get moved while the unit is powered off. I believe Josh told me that it would be cost prohibitive to have encoders, especially for bringing a novel product like this to the market. So you need to be mindful of this.... My scope rode on a pallet across the USA for a week in trucks, and all the vibration and weight of my camera caused the motors on top (as it was positioned) to spool out. I noticed something was way off when I first logged in when tilt was way worse than i expected. Even though I had zeroed it out, the motors moved a bit. I was worried about something like this happening and concerned that it would be difficult to address, but it turned out to be super simple. I asked the tech to measure the thickness of the two lower plates with a set of calipers, and discovered that the upper part was 1mm wider than the lower. So yeah, 1mm of tilt! Thats a problem. It took maybe 10 minutes of the tech taking measurements, and me making some adjustments to get it all flat again. Then I zeroed it out and had a new starting point. Problem solved.
Given this experience, would you recommend zeroing out before shipping and restoring the original settings once installed (dialing in tilt from there, of course)? Unfortunately, I did zero out the motors before shipping and still had this happen. My recommendation would be to zero out the motors and use a "c" clamp to pinch the lower plates together to prevent them from moving... or when you (or your tech) sets up, verify that the unit is flat before you start your analysis.
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I had not thought about transport much, but it got me thinking about shipping this epsilon down to Chile and I had a set of push/pull systems installed in these when designing. The idea was that a person may want to lock it down after adjusting so it didn't move, but once we ran them, it doesn't really move much so I abandoned them... but what if you put the push/pull screws in these ports and locked it for transport. Then just have the tech remove all 8 of the screws once there? Might be a good use for them. They are just M3 x 10 or 12mm and 4 set screws, 4 socket head screws would do the trick from the hardware store. Or, just put the 4 socket heads in and zero it all down so it's all held down flat and tight at 0 zero.  |
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Quick question: I have the Leo on an E130. Is it possible to manually rotate the entire focuser mechanism?
This is just a 1-time thing - I'm not doing this to match rotation between images - its more to get my diffraction spikes at 90 degrees vs the 45ish degrees they are right now..
first world problem I know… ;-)
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I would like some feedback from people on this thread who have become pros in getting the most out of their Epsilon E160-EDs.  I am planning on using the Hercules focuser, a ZWO ASI6200 full frame camera, and 50x50mm square filters on a ZWO 7x50 Square filter-wheel, and an OAG-L-68 (the bigger brother of the OAG-L) that fits the said filter wheel. I have two orthogonal questions: 1. What are people doing for OAGs with the Hercules focuser? I just realized that the helical focuser of the OAG might interfere with the Hercules focuser body, even though the OAG-L-68 body has a ~105-110mm diameter. 2. I am thinking of either getting the Chroma LRGB, 5nm Ha and band-shifted "fast" 3nm Oiii and Sii filters, or seeing if I can get away with the half as expensive Antlia set, with the 3nm Ha, Oiii and Sii filters. I am concerned that given the speed of the optics at f/3.3, that the Antlias will have significant illumination loss. Would love to hear if people are using 3nm narrowband filters and their experience. Unfortunately Astronomik doesn't make 50x50mm square MaxFR filters, otherwise I would have selected those given the glowing feedback for them on this thread. Note, I could use 50mm round unmounted filters, but my previous experience with fast scopes (including the PlaneWave reducer that has a very similar image circle, and is actually slower than the 160-ED) makes me severely biased against going smaller than 50x50mm square filters for good corner performance. Thanks so much, Ani
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I'm using the Chroma band-shifted 3nm Ha & OIII with my E-160. Smoooooth and clean data. I'll eventually pick up the SII…but I don't really need it at the moment, yet. The Chroma LRGB are just dandy, too. I don't find the vignetting bad at all and my flats easily take care of any.
Can't help you with the OAG stuff as I'm using my 10Micron mount unguided/predictive guided.
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Thanks for the prompt response, @mzaslove. Good to hear you are getting nice and clean results with the band-shifted filters. That gives me confidence and buy once cry once I suppose.  I am curious about 5nm Ha versus the band-shifted 3nm Ha. I primarily wanted the 5nm to capture Nii emissions as well, but I wonder how the spectral shift at fast focal ratios affects that... How long are your narrowband exposures, and what kind of skies are you imaging from? My 160ED is going on an L-350, so I can probably do 5-10min unguided exposures, but I have not found unguided imaging to consistently yield good subs. Then again, that's with much longer focal length CDK14, so maybe unguided will be fine at the 160-ED image scale. Thanks again, Ani
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I had heard from Chroma (but double-check) that the 5nm Ha non-band-shifted would lose some of their efficiency (light drop-off)…but at f3.3, it's not as bad as it could be, I guess. But it's not something one could really notice, other than knowing it's not gathering what it should (but it's hard to test that sort of thing by just looking). That's why I went with the band-shifted. Nii? I don't need no stinkin' Nii!!!
I'd probably hybrid guide something with the focal length of a CDK14 (once every 10 seconds or so), but at least with the 10Micron, the E-160ED never ever loses a sub due to the mount. Granted, everything's rigid as steel (or as close as I can get it).
MZ
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Ani Shastry:
I would like some feedback from people on this thread who have become pros in getting the most out of their Epsilon E160-EDs. I am planning on using the Hercules focuser, a ZWO ASI6200 full frame camera, and 50x50mm square filters on a ZWO 7x50 Square filter-wheel, and an OAG-L-68 (the bigger brother of the OAG-L) that fits the said filter wheel. I have two orthogonal questions:
1. What are people doing for OAGs with the Hercules focuser? I just realized that the helical focuser of the OAG might interfere with the Hercules focuser body, even though the OAG-L-68 body has a ~105-110mm diameter.
2. I am thinking of either getting the Chroma LRGB, 5nm Ha and band-shifted "fast" 3nm Oiii and Sii filters, or seeing if I can get away with the half as expensive Antlia set, with the 3nm Ha, Oiii and Sii filters. I am concerned that given the speed of the optics at f/3.3, that the Antlias will have significant illumination loss. Would love to hear if people are using 3nm narrowband filters and their experience. Unfortunately Astronomik doesn't make 50x50mm square MaxFR filters, otherwise I would have selected those given the glowing feedback for them on this thread. Note, I could use 50mm round unmounted filters, but my previous experience with fast scopes (including the PlaneWave reducer that has a very similar image circle, and is actually slower than the 160-ED) makes me severely biased against going smaller than 50x50mm square filters for good corner performance.
Thanks so much,
Ani Email Astronomik about 50x50mm filters. They didn't have them on their website but he had some available when I emailed last year. I think you may still have corner loss even with 50x50mm filters just based on the diameter of the corrector. Flats correct everything just fine for my system with the 50mm round filters.
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Also, I use a 3nm Ha filter for my refractor at a widefield focal length. From what I've read and experienced, you won't miss the Nitrogen signal. From what I've seen, that signal is mostly present on targets that require much longer focal lengths.
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Thanks for your feedback @Daniel, really appreciate it. I will reach out to Astronomik and see if they have 50x50mm still available. As for Nii signal, there are definitely some targets that are wide-field and still exhibit Nii. Plus, there is the possibility that I will upgrade from the Epsilon to a fast but deeper scope like the Delta Rho in the future, and it would be nice to be able to reuse the filters. Anyway, I did some more digging in, and here are the transmission graphs for the Chroma 3nm, 5nm and 3nm band-shifted Ha filters:  What is actually interesting here is that the 3nm band-shifted Ha might actually be the best equipped to transmit Nii signal at faster focal ratios compared to the 5nm.
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I'm building an e160 rig with the Hercules. I thought I had the backfocus sorted out, but I saw a Jeff R.'s post above and I realized that there is not enough clearance for a "normal" OAG. As a result I went back to the BFL calculations and then I realized I'm not sure there is agreement on where to add the filter thickness. I am hoping someone with some experience can help me answer a few questions and check my thinking.
The prescribed BFL is 56.2mm from the corrector. I have 2mm filters, so I must add 0.666mm to my imaging train. But where? Should the combination of spacers,OAG,FW+filters, and camera fit within the 56.2mm or should the filter light path correction be added on top of the 56.2? Most people are adding to the 56.2mm, but what is the rationale?
Further complication is that I am using Player One gear. The FW takes up 21mm, but their poor translation makes it seem like this compensates for the filter distance. The actual FW does measure 21mm but did they add that extra millimeter to the housing because they thought most people would forget to add the filter compensation to the BF? Does that even make sense?
—–
It seems like I'll have to abandon the OAG altogether due to clearance issues even if I switch to the Indigo. Here are my measurements with the Indigo and my current FW + Cam:
corrector | spacers (x-mm)? | OAG (14mm) | FW (21mm) | Filter (0.67mm) | Camera (17.5) = 53.17mm + x-mm (spacers)
So: 56.2mm - 53.17 = 3mm left for spacers between the corrector and the OAG. This isn't enough clearance. Right? The diameter of the 1.25" camera insert on the Indigo OAG is 38.07mm. That means there is 19.04mm from the center of the OAG to the corrector side of the train. The body of the OAG is 10mm + 4mm for the m54 adapter - this eats up 9mm of the 19.04mm - Therefore one requires a minimum of ~10mm of spacers before the OAG.
The Player One camera has a nice tilt plate, but it can be removed (probably not a good idea), to gain 5mm BF. I can move this to the front before the OAG to get 8mm, still 2mm short.
I'm assuming the corrector is flush with the Hercules, which is probably not correct. If there is a millimeter extra space for the corrector and the filter compensation gets added to the 56.2mm, then I'm very close to having enough room. But without the tilt plate…
Finally, if the OAG is a bust for me, is it possible to use the Epsilon's finder shoe with the Hercules installed?
I hope you guys can chime in with some ideas as to how this can work - I would really appreciate the help.
Thanks
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I would point out that at this speed and with the consequent shorter exposures and with a good mount and model, you may not need to guide at all. This can, of course, be tested with another system on your mount.
In fact I have an FSQ 106 and an E130 D on my AP 1600AEL and with a good model I decided to remove all OAG equipment from both scopes since I can go 15 minutes + with no guiding. Note that the FSQ is the same focal length as the E 160…
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I use my Epsilon 160ED with a Paramount MyT and I can do unguided 5 minute exposures even with a small(ish) sky model of about 40 points (TPoint), after polar aligning with Sharpcap (less than 5 min). I expect to be able to go longer when the scope gets deployed to a remote site (delivering it next week, almost there). So in my case, I do use the finder with a tiny guidescope to provide some autoguiding, tiny corrections that can happen from time to time. This will be mount dependent, but even when I didn't build a model the tiny guidescope can autoguide with enough precision for this image scale. An OAG is better obviously, but my imaging train is configured and ready to go and I don't want to touch it at this point (it is still not clear to me how an OAG fits with the Hercules, which I installed recently)
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Hi all, for those who have tried travelling with their Epsilon 160, how well does it hold collimation? I live about 1.5 hours from a bortle 1/2 area
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Mine travels great (but I have a very high-end case I got that I drop the whole scope and rig straight down from above). I go about 76 miles to my dark site all the time, and no problem. On one longer trip, I was even guided by Google Maps into a wrong turn into a totally unpaved area and bottomed out (twice) at 40 mph and STILL was collimated. The thing is a beast.
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Hi all, for those who have tried travelling with their Epsilon 160, how well does it hold collimation? I live about 1.5 hours from a bortle 1/2 area I took one all the way from France to a remote observatory in Chile, carry-on, 15h shaky flight, airports, 5h highway drive, 2h hardcore dirt road. Collimation spot-on upon arrival. Another one is about to take a 30h drive to another obs in Morocco, not worried! Don't sneeze close to the imaging train though, as it might throw your tilt tuning that you spent dozens of hours perfecting, away  |
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I have found that my 130 will sometimes change primary collimation in the first day or so after collimation. The change can be pretty large as well. I have learned to give it a day or so after collimation and then check it. Maybe 20% of the time it has moved despite great care being taken to tighten everything in the same way each time. I suspect there is some relaxation or screw slippage that can happen. OTOH, once it has been OK for that day, it stays the same basically forever.
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Ani Shastry:
I would like some feedback from people on this thread who have become pros in getting the most out of their Epsilon E160-EDs. I am planning on using the Hercules focuser, a ZWO ASI6200 full frame camera, and 50x50mm square filters on a ZWO 7x50 Square filter-wheel, and an OAG-L-68 (the bigger brother of the OAG-L) that fits the said filter wheel. I have two orthogonal questions:
1. What are people doing for OAGs with the Hercules focuser? I just realized that the helical focuser of the OAG might interfere with the Hercules focuser body, even though the OAG-L-68 body has a ~105-110mm diameter.
2. I am thinking of either getting the Chroma LRGB, 5nm Ha and band-shifted "fast" 3nm Oiii and Sii filters, or seeing if I can get away with the half as expensive Antlia set, with the 3nm Ha, Oiii and Sii filters. I am concerned that given the speed of the optics at f/3.3, that the Antlias will have significant illumination loss. Would love to hear if people are using 3nm narrowband filters and their experience. Unfortunately Astronomik doesn't make 50x50mm square MaxFR filters, otherwise I would have selected those given the glowing feedback for them on this thread. Note, I could use 50mm round unmounted filters, but my previous experience with fast scopes (including the PlaneWave reducer that has a very similar image circle, and is actually slower than the 160-ED) makes me severely biased against going smaller than 50x50mm square filters for good corner performance.
Thanks so much,
Ani Hello Ani, I would definitely contact Gerd Neumann about the 50x50mm MaxFR filters. I am sure he will be able to sell you some directly. As for the OAG, they are very difficult to fit into the small space available on the E160ED given the replacement focuser body size. When I imaged with my E160ED I already had my mind made up that an OAG was not likely in the cards. Luckily, the mount I was using it on (Mach 2) did a good job of unguided imaging with it -- so I did not need to worry about guiding at all. That was in Snohomish WA seeing though, I am not sure I would be as lucky were I to have it in New Mexico seeing. The most important part of all of this though, is to have enough room for a tilt correction device that you can use without removing the camera to get to it.
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Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Hello Ani,
I would definitely contact Gerd Neumann about the 50x50mm MaxFR filters. I am sure he will be able to sell you some directly.
As for the OAG, they are very difficult to fit into the small space available on the E160ED given the replacement focuser body size. When I imaged with my E160ED I already had my mind made up that an OAG was not likely in the cards. Luckily, the mount I was using it on (Mach 2) did a good job of unguided imaging with it -- so I did not need to worry about guiding at all. That was in Snohomish WA seeing though, I am not sure I would be as lucky were I to have it in New Mexico seeing.
The most important part of all of this though, is to have enough room for a tilt correction device that you can use without removing the camera to get to it. Hi Bill, Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. I actually did end up contacting Eric at Astronomik and he does have the 50x50mm filters. Not being able to fit an OAG in there is definitely a disappointment. I know I can probably get away without guiding on the L-350 at this image scale, but it would have been nice to be able to. I will need to order a custom part from precise parts to take the place of the OAG I had planned. And yes, my imaging train will have the ASG Photon Cage for tilt correction. Luckily the way I've designed the imaging train everything fits nicely within the required back-focus distance. Thanks again for your thoughts, Ani
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Mine travels great (but I have a very high-end case I got that I drop the whole scope and rig straight down from above). I go about 76 miles to my dark site all the time, and no problem. On one longer trip, I was even guided by Google Maps into a wrong turn into a totally unpaved area and bottomed out (twice) at 40 mph and STILL was collimated. The thing is a beast. Continuum - Laurent Lucas:
Hi all, for those who have tried travelling with their Epsilon 160, how well does it hold collimation? I live about 1.5 hours from a bortle 1/2 area
I took one all the way from France to a remote observatory in Chile, carry-on, 15h shaky flight, airports, 5h highway drive, 2h hardcore dirt road. Collimation spot-on upon arrival.
Another one is about to take a 30h drive to another obs in Morocco, not worried!
Don't sneeze close to the imaging train though, as it might throw your tilt tuning that you spent dozens of hours perfecting, away Amazing thanks both, that was my biggest worry!
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@Jeff Ridder are you willing to share the measurements and equipment of your imaging train that allows enough clearance for the OAG. It looks like you have a lot of space between the hercules and the OAG plate. Can you tell if there is space for a guide cam on the epsilon mounting bracket with the herc?
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@Jeff Ridder are you willing to share the measurements and equipment of your imaging train that allows enough clearance for the OAG. It looks like you have a lot of space between the hercules and the OAG plate. Can you tell if there is space for a guide cam on the epsilon mounting bracket with the herc? Sure thing. Here ya go:  |
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Hi @Jeff Ridder, how did you get the backspacing for the QHY600 SBFL down to 7mm? I thought it’s either 12.5mm with the QHY filter wheel, or 14.5mm due to the rim that sticks out when used any other filter wheel and/or with the Photon Cage or EAT. Thanks, Ani
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Ani Shastry:
Hi @Jeff Ridder, how did you get the backspacing for the QHY600 SBFL down to 7mm? I thought it’s either 12.5mm with the QHY filter wheel, or 14.5mm due to the rim that sticks out when used any other filter wheel and/or with the Photon Cage or EAT.
Thanks,
Ani The front plate comes off. 7mm without that.
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