Takahashi's bad focusers Takahashi Epsilon-130D · Mauricio Christiano de Souza · ... · 34 · 1239 · 25

Dave Rust:
Wow! And something that could easily be engineered out.

Mauricio Christiano de Souza:
I believe at this point Takahashi should partner with Feather Touch or something like that

Dunk:
I had the exact same issue with my Epsilon and like others have upgraded to a Leo - but its an expensive "fix" for sure...

Alex Nicholas:
Its unfortunate, but as I've said a number of times, Takahashi is a company that lives and breathes due to the reputation they earned YEARS ago for optical quality when utilising CCD's with 7~9um pixels.... And their focusers have always been problematic at best, and required replacement even on their expensive models like the TOA-150. 

The other aspect to remember is that due to this hard earned reputation in the late 90's to mid 2000's, their scopes have remained unchanged for nearly a decade, while cameras have improved to the point that a IMX571 sensor has enough pixel resolution to show astigmatism in an FSQ85 or FSQ106, and the correction of the Epsilon scopes, that was perfectly fine across the old KAI-11000M 35mm CCD, now struggles with APS-C sized sensors due to the pixels that are 1/3rd the size.. 

If Takahashi want to retain their position at the top end of astrograph refractors, they are going to need to step it up a notch. 

Legitmiately, my Askar 65PHQ provides as good images as the FSQ85EDX I used to own, and the only way you could tell them apart most of the time, is that when a bright star is in the field, the takahashi has a weird clam shell shaped lens flare where the Askar does not. And I would bet the difference in cost that the FRA600 vs FSQ106 fight would be similar....  Given the FRA600 is less than half the cost of the FSQ106, and the results from them would be largely indistinguishable, and the fact that the FSQ needs a focuser upgrade before use.. These days I think its a pretty hard sell, and the only people buying the cheaper (yes, I know how that sounds, but it is what it is) Takahashi scopes like the FSQ85, and the Epsilons are people who are being lured in by the name and the reputation, and aren't being completely objective about what they want... Sure, if you're buying something like the TOA130 / TOA150, I will grant you, those scopes don't have much in the way of competition... But these days, the FSQ's are in dire need of a new version with updated focusers, and better corrected optics, the Epsilons have needed a new revision for AGES with better focusers and easier collimation process (however I will say the E130 I had briefly held collimation better than any newt I'd ever owned).

These days I would (and have) spent considerably less money on two telescopes than I would used to have spent on one Takahashi and have not felt like I've sacrificed anything... Maybe the Tak 130 would be a bit sharper than my Askar 120 if you're really pixel peeping, but its a $2500 AUD scope vs a $12000AUD scope... So am I willing to pay $10k more for a hint more sharpness at 100% zoom, but a trash focuser by comparison, exceptionally expensive flatteners/correctors, proprietary threaded adapters etc? No... 

If people want Tak scopes to return to their former glory of being the best scopes on the market, people need to stop buying the sub-par scopes they are producing currently.

Ashraf AbuSara:
The new E160ED boasts a 3 μm  spot size on the edge of a full frame sensor. The new TOA-130 645 flattener has similar spot size

Mauricio Christiano de Souza:
I am an owner of two Takahashi telescope models, one is an E-130D and the other a FSQ-85EDX, with the newtonian being my main setup at the moment. I think it's an unanimity that Takahashi is known for being one high end brand when talking about optics we can buy, and I like both models I own a lot. However, there is one detail that I really get uncomfortable with: the focuser.

This specific part is the achilles tendon of most Takahashi models. I have experienced both of my models having the same issue that ended up making them unusable if no repair is done. So I decided to come here and open a new topic to report this and also leave my dissatisfaction with those not well thought focusers. (Sorry if a topic about this already exists)

The first Takahashi I bought is the FSQ-85EDX back in September 2021. I used it for a very good time in my backyard all clear nights possible.



It delivered very sharp images for months without any problems. I used to leave it covered with a proper telescope cape and under a sunshade to block direct sunlight during the day. I wouldn't leave it in rainy weather though. I'm telling this because I think heat is one of the major contributors to the problem. As I leave in Brazil, we have hot days throughout the entire year, getting up to 40°C on some few. The telescope would reach a temperature higher than ambient (maybe 45-50°C, I estimate), but I never thought it impacted it in any way, as it is very well built with high quality materials. However, heat in excess seems to be able to soften the glue that is used to fix some pieces of the focuser together, and the fact that the weight of the camera and its accessories are making pressure on those pieces all the time, made the glue rip and the pieces to slide in opposite directions (friction) every time it auto-focused. It is a slow process and you don't notice it until the focuser is done and unusable, as it collapses after both pieces lose contact.

Focuser diagram:
(Note: the image may not be accurate and there are two fixed drawtube supports points that I chose not to show to not confuse the diagram)



The problem:
Glue is ripped off from between the teflon pad that accommodates the drawtube and the metal pad. The teflon pad is dragged out of the its original position due to the friction and starts to appear on the outside. When there is no more contact between the teflon pad and the metal pad, massive tilt appears in the images and the drawtube can lock because it is not parallel to the rest of the focuser body anymore. It is worth to highlight that it took several months on hot weather for this to happen with my FSQ, so it is probable that it takes year for this to happen in a colder environment.



The solution for the FSQ85 focuser was to glue both pieces together again. I don't think it is a permanent fix though, the ideal fix would be an upgrade to a feather touch or similar.

Unfortunately I deleted the images that showed the disassembled focuser because this happended 2 years ago with the FSQ. I do have an image for the same problem that also happened with the E-130D, which has a very similar focuser design.

When I bought the E-130D, my second Takahashi telescope, I was already very aware that the stock focuser is not ideal for the precision that F/3.3 requires for sharp images, so buying a new focuser was in the plan and an eventual problem was expected. At that point I already had an observatory and I thought that having a much cooler environment would help to preserve the focuser long enough before I could buy an upgrade, of at least one year.



However, the problem happened again, and much faster than I was expecting. It took only 6 months for it to collapse while being exposed to 30°C inside the observatory, much cooler than what the FSQ85 sustained for much longer. And again I had a paper weight telescope and had to spend money much sooner than I originally planned, which is a quite disappointment, considering how much money we spend on these things and how inaccessible they are over here in South America. I still think the heat was a problem, but the weight should be considered as well.




The solution this time was to replace the focuser entirely. In a perfect scenario I would have chosen the Optec Leo, but that is way outside my budget (considering the import fees are as high as 100%, not considering other shipment costs), so I bought a 2047 Studio focuser upgrade for it. I liked the quality of the new focuser and I believe it should be a reference for minimum standards (for Epsilon telescopes at least, which are very sensitive to misalignments). Is is also very well thought to not use any glue or anything that can decay in the long term, just stuff made of metal and adjusted by screws.

It just required some modifications on the OTA... I won't elaborate on that because it is off topic, but I can explain what needed to be done to anyone that considers this cheaper option.





I believe at this point Takahashi should partner with Feather Touch or something like that (like Stellarvue does with their refractors), or just change their design entirely to something more modern and capable of withstanding large loads of photographic equipment, even if it makes the telescope price slightly higher (in my opinion). At this situation, it is almost mandatory that you order a focuser upgrade as soon as you order a Takahashi.

I like to compare this situation to a car. You dream about buying a specific car and have expectations of how it performs. I believe we all can agree how big of a disappointment it would be to discover that eventually it will fail and will require expensive upgrades that cost a big percentage of what its original price is. I believe telescopes should be no different in that perspective... It is a big shame that Takahashi still chooses to ignore their focuser design flaws and just leave to us consumers to deal with it. There are focuser designs that are much better than those that Takahashi fabricates, and people complain about it a lot on other pages. Some people go as far as sending it back to Takahashi for repair to its officials north american or european representatives or directly to Japan, which is a HUGE inconvenience and just impossible for us in south america for example. The fact that some models doesn't even have reduction also makes the telescope feels cheap, as if it was something that would make the telescope much more expensive to fabricate (yet they still price the reduction upgrade for something that ain't it, just showing how they are making a big profit margin on their focusers).

On the other side, I have to be honest and give them a credit for having high quality optics. I believe both of my telescopes are the best I have ever seen in their category for their price range (there are better optics, but costs much more than a Takahashi). I just feel everyone has to be aware that their focusers are just not made for astrophotography and may even fail at some point even with lighter loads. I won't replace my E-130D, I love it, except the focuser. Just felt it would help to report this problem to the community.

would you mind elaborating a bit on the OTA modifications required for the Epsilon?

I appreciate you sharing that.I have bought the e180 variant of the stido247 focuser and will make a decision once it arrives on If and how I will proceed.
Your right this is something Takahashi should of addressed along time ago.