I would really appreciate hearing from others what your experience has been in terms of pairing astro cameras (OSC or Mono) with this scope when shooting at F10. I currently use ASI2600MCP and bin at 2x2 or 3x3 but seem to lose a lot of resolution. I also use ASI294MCP but dislike how fickle it can be with the calibration frames. Should I just suck it up and keep binning with my current cameras or have you had better experiences with astro cameras with a larger pixel size such as ASI2400? Should I look outside of the ZWO eco-system for cameras with a larger pixel size and high resolution?
Thanks!
Gina
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I've been using ASI2600MM Duo, without binning. Also, previously for some smaller targets the ASI533MM without binning, plus OAG. Those are the only ones I have experience with. Resolution is very good. My very best subimages were around 1.6" FWHM according to PixInsight, for 600s exposures. 2.0" to 2.5" is common. Backyard location. Just depends on seeing.
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Hi Gina
Since January, I moved to a Poseidon M here with OAG and Xena Camera, filter wheel, all attached to an EdgeHD 9.25”. Works beautifully.
In the past 10 years I rarely made f10; I mostly used that OTA with hyperstar and an OSC would it be the 2600MC, or the 071. Prior to that, with a Canon T1i. The few times I did f10 with any of those cameras, results were good enough. But the mono sets a very high point. Much better for that task. You can check on my gallery.
If resolution is a concern because of seeing, I suggest you bin in software, not during acquisition, since color binning will be lost with an OSC camera.
Regards,
Alfredo
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ASI2400MC pro is probably the best choice given it's large pixel size. If your image train can handle full frame then this will serve you well.
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I can recommend the 2400mc. It’s a good match at bin1.
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I would first check what is your local seeing and match your camera sampling so you get about 3 pixels per FWHM. Before you start imaging, you can also run a few test and measure the HFR in arcsec for bin1 and bin2, and see how much it will affect your star resolution. For me, 0.6arcsec sampling is about ideal for typical seeing.
Binning with OSC is possible but because of the Bayer structure you are actually binning further than you think you are. For instance bin2 actually affects 4^2 pixel patches. Personally, I prefer doing a bin1 integration and them doing my downsampling in post-processing with OSC. I do bin my mono camera though, the advantage is significantly lower file sizes and faster stacking.
I would say here are your options for the Edge9.25 at f/10:
-2400mc –IMX410– (FULL FRAME)-> 0.52" per pixel. [Recommend bin1]
-asi2600mm –IMX571– (APSC) -> BIN1: 0.33" per pixel, BIN2: 0.66" per pixel . [Recommend bin2]
-asi6200mm –IMX455– (FULL FRAME) -> BIN1: 0.33" per pixel, BIN2: 0.66" per pixel. [Recommend bin2]
In particular the 2600 and 6200 are similar sensor but the 6200 give you a larger FOV. I think full frame works quite well at f/10 due to the high focal length. It gives you about the same FOV as an APSC at f/7.
If you are not stuck in the ZWO architecture, you can get equivalent sensor with other manufacturer such as player one, Ogma or Touptek. All the camera use the same Sony sensors.
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Bill Dirks:
I've been using ASI2600MM Duo, without binning. Also, previously for some smaller targets the ASI533MM without binning, plus OAG. Those are the only ones I have experience with. Resolution is very good. My very best subimages were around 1.6" FWHM according to PixInsight, for 600s exposures. 2.0" to 2.5" is common. Backyard location. Just depends on seeing. Thanks Bill. Perhaps the seeing has been worse than I think it has been. Good to know you are getting good results without binning.
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I recommend the IMX410 equipped cameras absolutely over any other color camera. The sampling rate for them on all EdgeHD's at F/10 is nearly 1:1 with the resolution limit, so given the seeing is good, you can take incredibly sharp images. Full well being high at 104ke- also helps reduce the likelihood of overexposure. At Gain 0 you can take over 1 minute exposures on M42 and get perfect trapezium stars.
Now if you have the money, I would go for the 6200MM or equivalent and bin 2x, it is a great camera.
I'm either mono converting my 2400 or waiting to see if the incredible IMX810AQL from α9 III has a monochrome version (next to nothing is available online about it).
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Alfredo Beltrán:
Hi Gina
Since January, I moved to a Poseidon M here with OAG and Xena Camera, filter wheel, all attached to an EdgeHD 9.25”. Works beautifully.
In the past 10 years I rarely made f10; I mostly used that OTA with hyperstar and an OSC would it be the 2600MC, or the 071. Prior to that, with a Canon T1i. The few times I did f10 with any of those cameras, results were good enough. But the mono sets a very high point. Much better for that task. You can check on my gallery.
If resolution is a concern because of seeing, I suggest you bin in software, not during acquisition, since color binning will be lost with an OSC camera.
Regards,
Alfredo Thanks Alfredo - this is quite helpful. Very nice gallery!
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Alfredo Beltrán:
Hi Gina
Since January, I moved to a Poseidon M here with OAG and Xena Camera, filter wheel, all attached to an EdgeHD 9.25”. Works beautifully.
In the past 10 years I rarely made f10; I mostly used that OTA with hyperstar and an OSC would it be the 2600MC, or the 071. Prior to that, with a Canon T1i. The few times I did f10 with any of those cameras, results were good enough. But the mono sets a very high point. Much better for that task. You can check on my gallery.
If resolution is a concern because of seeing, I suggest you bin in software, not during acquisition, since color binning will be lost with an OSC camera.
Regards,
Alfredo Thanks Alfredo - this is quite helpful. Very nice gallery! Charles Tremblay-Darveau:
I would first check what is your local seeing and match your camera sampling so you get about 3 pixels per FWHM. Before you start imaging, you can also run a few test and measure the HFR in arcsec for bin1 and bin2, and see how much it will affect your star resolution. For me, 0.6arcsec sampling is about ideal for typical seeing.
Binning with OSC is possible but because of the Bayer structure you are actually binning further than you think you are. For instance bin2 actually affects 4^2 pixel patches. Personally, I prefer doing a bin1 integration and them doing my downsampling in post-processing with OSC. I do bin my mono camera though, the advantage is significantly lower file sizes and faster stacking.
I would say here are your options for the Edge9.25 at f/10:
-2400mc --IMX410-- (FULL FRAME)-> 0.52" per pixel. [Recommend bin1]
-asi2600mm --IMX571-- (APSC) -> BIN1: 0.33" per pixel, BIN2: 0.66" per pixel . [Recommend bin2]
-asi6200mm --IMX455-- (FULL FRAME) -> BIN1: 0.33" per pixel, BIN2: 0.66" per pixel. [Recommend bin2]
In particular the 2600 and 6200 are similar sensor but the 6200 give you a larger FOV. I think full frame works quite well at f/10 due to the high focal length. It gives you about the same FOV as an APSC at f/7.
If you are not stuck in the ZWO architecture, you can get equivalent sensor with other manufacturer such as player one, Ogma or Touptek. All the camera use the same Sony sensors. Awesome - thanks Charles - this is extremely helpful! I appreciate the explanation about how binning with OSC is more than I thought and the camera option examples.
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V:
I recommend the IMX410 equipped cameras absolutely over any other color camera. The sampling rate for them on all EdgeHD's at F/10 is nearly 1:1 with the resolution limit, so given the seeing is good, you can take incredibly sharp images. Full well being high at 104ke- also helps reduce the likelihood of overexposure. At Gain 0 you can take over 1 minute exposures on M42 and get perfect trapezium stars.
Now if you have the money, I would go for the 6200MM or equivalent and bin 2x, it is a great camera.
I'm either mono converting my 2400 or waiting to see if the incredible IMX810AQL from α9 III has a monochrome version (next to nothing is available online about it). Thanks V - I guess I need to save up my pennies. I've been procrastinating switching to mono as it's another learning curve - but steep learning curves are what this hobby is about -ha!
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Gina Knight:
V:
I recommend the IMX410 equipped cameras absolutely over any other color camera. The sampling rate for them on all EdgeHD's at F/10 is nearly 1:1 with the resolution limit, so given the seeing is good, you can take incredibly sharp images. Full well being high at 104ke- also helps reduce the likelihood of overexposure. At Gain 0 you can take over 1 minute exposures on M42 and get perfect trapezium stars.
Now if you have the money, I would go for the 6200MM or equivalent and bin 2x, it is a great camera.
I'm either mono converting my 2400 or waiting to see if the incredible IMX810AQL from α9 III has a monochrome version (next to nothing is available online about it).
Thanks V - I guess I need to save up my pennies. I've been procrastinating switching to mono as it's another learning curve - but steep learning curves are what this hobby is about -ha! I ended up splurging on my 2400, and it was completely worth the wait; a gamechanging piece of equipment. It helps that my A7III I was using before it had the same sensor.
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The pixel size of your 2600 is right in the ballpark if you have good seeing, sampling at 2350mm is about perfect. I really doubt that a different camera will improve your resolution.
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Tony Gondola:
The pixel size of your 2600 is right in the ballpark if you have good seeing, sampling at 2350mm is about perfect. I really doubt that a different camera will improve your resolution. Thanks Tony - I am going to pay more attention to the weather/seeing sites moving forward to better manage my expectations!
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