Remote observatory with SA GTI and Rokinon 135 mm Lens ?

3.82 Eric Gagne ... · view views · Share link
Yeah…I know this is not the typical remote setup but if it’s a stupid idea please tell me without laughing too much . I could put together the following, I already own all the components. I wouldn’t have to buy anything new. Kasa smart plug to be able to cycle the power. Pegasus 12v 5a power supply Pegasus power box micro Asiair plus Star adventurer GTI Samyang/Rokinon 135mm ZWO EAF ZWO Mini guide scope ZWO Guide camera ZWO ASI533MC ZWO EFW Mini 5 positions (I don’t think filters are necessary in a bortle 1 site but I have a dark filter in it which I can use for flat darks.) I wonder if this could work without having to request support every 5 minutes. There’s 2 things I mostly wonder about. First, how to take flats and flat darks without a flat panel ? One solution I thought of is to use plan mode in the ASIAIR to have a “flats plan” with automatic exposure time starting at a predetermined time using the blue sky as light source. In the morning I could check the length of the exposures and manually run flat darks using that same exposure time. The 2nd thing I am a bit worried about is power failures or having to power cycle the whole thing. Since the GTI does not have a physical home, how could I “home” it without running into the pier or going full 360 degrees on any axis and wrap my cables around things. I know most people would not go remote with a GTI and a camera lens, they’d use a small refractor and a ZWO AM3 but I don’t own those and I don’t have $3500 to $4000 to buy it. I am just trying to find a way to use all this expensive equipment I already own more than 2 or 3 clear nights a month. I emailed this question to Starfront but until they reply I am curious to see what others think. Am I missing something obvious (or not) why it couldn’t work ? Edited ... Like

3.82

...

Yeah…I know this is not the typical remote setup but if it’s a stupid idea please tell me without laughing too much smile

.

I could put together the following, I already own all the components. I wouldn’t have to buy anything new.

Kasa smart plug to be able to cycle the power.
Pegasus 12v 5a power supply
Pegasus power box micro
Asiair plus
Star adventurer GTI
Samyang/Rokinon 135mm
ZWO EAF
ZWO Mini guide scope
ZWO Guide camera
ZWO ASI533MC
ZWO EFW Mini 5 positions (I don’t think filters are necessary in a bortle 1 site but I have a dark filter in it which I can use for flat darks.)

I wonder if this could work without having to request support every 5 minutes. There’s 2 things I mostly wonder about.

First, how to take flats and flat darks without a flat panel ? One solution I thought of is to use plan mode in the ASIAIR to have a “flats plan” with automatic exposure time starting at a predetermined time using the blue sky as light source. In the morning I could check the length of the exposures and manually run flat darks using that same exposure time.

The 2nd thing I am a bit worried about is power failures or having to power cycle the whole thing. Since the GTI does not have a physical home, how could I “home” it without running into the pier or going full 360 degrees on any axis and wrap my cables around things.

I know most people would not go remote with a GTI and a camera lens, they’d use a small refractor and a ZWO AM3 but I don’t own those and I don’t have $3500 to $4000 to buy it. I am just trying to find a way to use all this expensive equipment I already own more than 2 or 3 clear nights a month.

I emailed this question to Starfront but until they reply I am curious to see what others think. Am I missing something obvious (or not) why it couldn’t work ?

Edited ...

26.84 John Hayes ... · view views · 6 likes · Share link
I don't know much about the equipment in your list but here's the way to approach your question. The best way to tell if this is workable is to set it all up in your backyard and run it from inside. If you've got to go out to fix something, you aren't ready for remote. Once you can start it and shut it down remotely and you have it running for a month without having to run out to fiddle with something, you might stand a chance of running it remotely. Remote operation is always harder than running in your backyard simply because of Murphy's law. Stuff that worked perfectly in the backyard will fail or have problems once it involves travel to deal with it. I posted a guide to remote operations some time ago and it would be a good idea to review that document. A lot of the problems that you will run into with a remote operation are not immediately obvious. You've got to try it to figure out the issues. As for flats, I recommend configuring a flat panel but if that's not possible, try taking sky flats. John Like

26.84

John Hayes

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I don't know much about the equipment in your list but here's the way to approach your question. The best way to tell if this is workable is to set it all up in your backyard and run it from inside. If you've got to go out to fix something, you aren't ready for remote. Once you can start it and shut it down remotely and you have it running for a month without having to run out to fiddle with something, you might stand a chance of running it remotely. Remote operation is always harder than running in your backyard simply because of Murphy's law. Stuff that worked perfectly in the backyard will fail or have problems once it involves travel to deal with it. I posted a guide to remote operations some time ago and it would be a good idea to review that document. A lot of the problems that you will run into with a remote operation are not immediately obvious. You've got to try it to figure out the issues.

As for flats, I recommend configuring a flat panel but if that's not possible, try taking sky flats.

John

1.51 Maxim ... · view views · Share link
I think it's totally doable, but, one component you'll have to replace and that is the asiair. For the remote work you'll need to run NINA on a PC like Miele quieter 3c. Then you'll need a wifi controlled power strip with 4 outputs: mount, pc, power box and wifi camera so you can power on/off each part independently. The camera will need to have switchable ir lights or good night capabilities. This way you'll be able to home the mount manually by looking at it remotely in case of a power outage. Also the powerstrip should run from a UPS unit. I use automatic flat panel and it's recommended, the once from deepskydad are not that expensive. I don't usually do darks with imx533 and imx571 sensor, but even when I needed them, the darkness of the closed flat panel along with the roof during cloudy night was enough. But you'll probably be able to get away without darks as I do with just frequent dithering, and you'll be able to take skyflats. Nina is much more capable in that regard. Edited ... Like

1.51

Maxim

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I think it's totally doable, but, one component you'll have to replace and that is the asiair. For the remote work you'll need to run NINA on a PC like Miele quieter 3c. Then you'll need a wifi controlled power strip with 4 outputs: mount, pc, power box and wifi camera so you can power on/off each part independently. The camera will need to have switchable ir lights or good night capabilities. This way you'll be able to home the mount manually by looking at it remotely in case of a power outage. Also the powerstrip should run from a UPS unit.

I use automatic flat panel and it's recommended, the once from deepskydad are not that expensive. I don't usually do darks with imx533 and imx571 sensor, but even when I needed them, the darkness of the closed flat panel along with the roof during cloudy night was enough.
But you'll probably be able to get away without darks as I do with just frequent dithering, and you'll be able to take skyflats. Nina is much more capable in that regard.

Edited ...

19.90 Chris White- Overcast Observatory ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
I have no remote experience yet, but one thing that jumped out is you mentioned dark flats. With the imx533 you don't need these. Just calibrate your flats with bias. You don't need to worry about ampglow like the panasonic-m or the 183, etc… That will simplify your process a little and eliminate one of your concerns. Like

1.81 TiffsAndAstro ... · view views · Share link
Chris White- Overcast Observatory: I have no remote experience yet, but one thing that jumped out is you mentioned dark flats. With the imx533 you don't need these. Just calibrate your flats with bias. You don't need to worry about ampglow like the panasonic-m or the 183, etc... That will simplify your process a little and eliminate one of your concerns. or take darks and biases now before sending gear away. Take them at multiple temps now so you're covered. Like

1.81

TiffsAndAstro

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Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
I have no remote experience yet, but one thing that jumped out is you mentioned dark flats. With the imx533 you don't need these. Just calibrate your flats with bias. You don't need to worry about ampglow like the panasonic-m or the 183, etc...

That will simplify your process a little and eliminate one of your concerns.

or take darks and biases now before sending gear away. Take them at multiple temps now so you're covered.

3.82 Eric Gagne Topic starter ... · view views · Share link
Maxim: I think it's totally doable, but, one component you'll have to replace and that is the asiair. From everything I have read you’re right that a mini pc and nina is the better way to go but I don’t want to delay things by having to learn new hardware and software. Starfront makes it possible to use ASIAIR+ and have some customers doing so. They connect the Ethernet port and give vpn access. I am going to try that while. If it’s too much trouble I can always send a mini pc and have them make the switch Like

3.82

Eric Gagne

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Maxim:
I think it's totally doable, but, one component you'll have to replace and that is the asiair.

From everything I have read you’re right that a mini pc and nina is the better way to go but I don’t want to delay things by having to learn new hardware and software. Starfront makes it possible to use ASIAIR+ and have some customers doing so. They connect the Ethernet port and give vpn access.

I am going to try that while. If it’s too much trouble I can always send a mini pc and have them make the switch

1.51 Maxim ... · view views · Share link
Eric Gagne: They connect the Ethernet port and give vpn access. Yeah, I guess that's possible. Just make sure that you get a private VPN to your particular address, because otherwise anyone on that network will be able to connect to your asiair. At least last time I used it, it didn't have authorization protection, like e.g. Windows has. Like

3.82 Eric Gagne Topic starter ... · view views · Share link
I got a reply from the observatory confirming it can work. They recommend doing sky flats manually as needed if I stick with the ASIAIR which is what I will do it I can’t get things to work using plan mode. There will be cameras in the buildings, after a power failure I should be able to check the position of the mount and manually bring it home. Worst case, they will simply manually set it home point it to Polaris. When it’s dark I can take a shot, plate solve and sync with the mount. Unless there is power outages every 2nd day I can live with that for a year until I upgrade the mount. I am still not sure about bias or flat darks, there’s a lot of conflicting information on the web. I think I’d better set things so I can do both and see what works when the rig is installed. Like

3.82

Eric Gagne

Topic starter

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I got a reply from the observatory confirming it can work. They recommend doing sky flats manually as needed if I stick with the ASIAIR which is what I will do it I can’t get things to work using plan mode.

There will be cameras in the buildings, after a power failure I should be able to check the position of the mount and manually bring it home. Worst case, they will simply manually set it home point it to Polaris. When it’s dark I can take a shot, plate solve and sync with the mount. Unless there is power outages every 2nd day I can live with that for a year until I upgrade the mount.

I am still not sure about bias or flat darks, there’s a lot of conflicting information on the web. I think I’d better set things so I can do both and see what works when the rig is installed.

9.38 Quinn Groessl ... · view views · Share link
Eric Gagne: I got a reply from the observatory confirming it can work. They recommend doing sky flats manually as needed if I stick with the ASIAIR which is what I will do it I can’t get things to work using plan mode. There will be cameras in the buildings, after a power failure I should be able to check the position of the mount and manually bring it home. Worst case, they will simply manually set it home point it to Polaris. When it’s dark I can take a shot, plate solve and sync with the mount. Unless there is power outages every 2nd day I can live with that for a year until I upgrade the mount. I am still not sure about bias or flat darks, there’s a lot of conflicting information on the web. I think I’d better set things so I can do both and see what works when the rig is installed. If you have a second set up that you'd need the filter wheel on then I'd keep it at home. Otherwise, why not just send it along. It'd be better to have it and not need it than want it and not have it. And it does no good just sitting on a shelf. With that said, with my 2600 I've used the same darks and bias for over a year now. Since amp glow isn't an issue with this camera, I've never found flat darks to be very useful. Even so, I wouldn't have the patience to get flat darks every morning anyway. Edited ... Like

9.38

Quinn Groessl

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Eric Gagne:
I got a reply from the observatory confirming it can work. They recommend doing sky flats manually as needed if I stick with the ASIAIR which is what I will do it I can’t get things to work using plan mode.

There will be cameras in the buildings, after a power failure I should be able to check the position of the mount and manually bring it home. Worst case, they will simply manually set it home point it to Polaris. When it’s dark I can take a shot, plate solve and sync with the mount. Unless there is power outages every 2nd day I can live with that for a year until I upgrade the mount.

I am still not sure about bias or flat darks, there’s a lot of conflicting information on the web. I think I’d better set things so I can do both and see what works when the rig is installed.

If you have a second set up that you'd need the filter wheel on then I'd keep it at home. Otherwise, why not just send it along. It'd be better to have it and not need it than want it and not have it. And it does no good just sitting on a shelf.

With that said, with my 2600 I've used the same darks and bias for over a year now. Since amp glow isn't an issue with this camera, I've never found flat darks to be very useful. Even so, I wouldn't have the patience to get flat darks every morning anyway.

Edited ...

8.30 Bray Falls ... · view views · 3 likes · Share link
Hey Eric, What John Hayes says it good advice. If you can run automated in your backyard consistently without issues, you will be good to go for remote. If problems do crop up, we can help, but your chances of having a successful time remote imaging are best when you know your rig can go consistently. And ASIAIRS can be used in remote observatories, when using a VPN and VLAN, a user can connect to the ASIAIR via the app as if you were there. The files can then be accessed as a network drive. Mini PCs give you more flexibilty and capability, but it is certainly possible to go the ASIAIR route. Like

8.30

Bray Falls

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Hey Eric,

What John Hayes says it good advice. If you can run automated in your backyard consistently without issues, you will be good to go for remote. If problems do crop up, we can help, but your chances of having a successful time remote imaging are best when you know your rig can go consistently.

And ASIAIRS can be used in remote observatories, when using a VPN and VLAN, a user can connect to the ASIAIR via the app as if you were there. The files can then be accessed as a network drive. Mini PCs give you more flexibilty and capability, but it is certainly possible to go the ASIAIR route.

0.00 Baronvonsmoogle ... · view views · Share link
John Hayes: I posted a guide to remote operations some time ago Where can I find this? Forum? Title?? Like

3.82 Eric Gagne Topic starter ... · view views · Share link
Bray Falls: Hey Eric, What John Hayes says it good advice. If you can run automated in your backyard consistently without issues, you will be good to go for remote. If problems do crop up, we can help, but your chances of having a successful time remote imaging are best when you know your rig can go consistently. And ASIAIRS can be used in remote observatories, when using a VPN and VLAN, a user can connect to the ASIAIR via the app as if you were there. The files can then be accessed as a network drive. Mini PCs give you more flexibilty and capability, but it is certainly possible to go the ASIAIR route. Thx Bray. I started doing that last night, I simulated power outages to see what the Asiair would do when power returns. I wanted to confirm it won’t resume if it was executing a plan. I am waiting for a zoo adapter to connect the camera to the efw so I can run real remote simulations whenever the sky clears…..if ever again Like

3.82

Eric Gagne

Topic starter

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Bray Falls:
Hey Eric,

What John Hayes says it good advice. If you can run automated in your backyard consistently without issues, you will be good to go for remote. If problems do crop up, we can help, but your chances of having a successful time remote imaging are best when you know your rig can go consistently.

And ASIAIRS can be used in remote observatories, when using a VPN and VLAN, a user can connect to the ASIAIR via the app as if you were there. The files can then be accessed as a network drive. Mini PCs give you more flexibilty and capability, but it is certainly possible to go the ASIAIR route.

Thx Bray. I started doing that last night, I simulated power outages to see what the Asiair would do when power returns. I wanted to confirm it won’t resume if it was executing a plan.

I am waiting for a zoo adapter to connect the camera to the efw so I can run real remote simulations whenever the sky clears…..if ever again

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