Do you use a laptop or a desk computer for stacking and processing?

For staking and process your astrophotography, do you use a laptop or a desk computer? Please feel free to explain which equipment do you have and how powerful is it (CPU, RAM, OS, Graphics).
Laptop
Desk computer
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19.38 Dale Penkala ... · view views · Share link
We should not turn this into a Windows vs. Linux/Unix thread. In my professional life I worked with a lot of operating systems and while there is a good reason that most of the large scale business applications run on the Unix OS family I would not be willing to join the Windows bashing community. In all cases a smooth running OS requires some maintenance, in particular keeping the hardware drivers up-to-date and having the latest patches installed. I have experienced very few crashes on my windows machines over the years and at least as many "hangups" on MacOS. While watching a colourful rotating wheel is nicer than a blue screen with a cryptic error message (remember the infamous: "Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?") both is not what you want to see. There is no such thing like bug-free software so the occasional crash is part of life - just like your mount not guiding properly. If it happens frequently or even regularly then something is wrong with your setup. If you want to run PI under Linux the most straightforward way is to create a Linux USB boot stick. The next step would be to create a linux partition on your PC: How to Dual Boot Any Linux Distribution With Windows – and Get Rid of It When You Need To (freecodecamp.org) You could also run Linux in a Virtual box under Windows but this just introduces an additional layer which may fail. I would prefer the dual boot solution. Clear skies Wolfgang Wolfgang, I’m not bashing windows or Pixinsight, rather stating some issues I run into using 2 different computers. Strictly for informational purposes. I’ve read about the Linux virtual box though I couldn’t remember the actual name but yes it runs in the windows platform. I do not like the idea for the same reason you mention, adds another layer for problems. I’ll continue to save my work multiple times throughout my workflow unless I figure out what the underlying issue actually is. Dale Like

19.38

...

We should not turn this into a Windows vs. Linux/Unix thread. In my professional life I worked with a lot of operating systems and while there is a good reason that most of the large scale business applications run on the Unix OS family I would not be willing to join the Windows bashing community. In all cases a smooth running OS requires some maintenance, in particular keeping the hardware drivers up-to-date and having the latest patches installed. I have experienced very few crashes on my windows machines over the years and at least as many "hangups" on MacOS. While watching a colourful rotating wheel is nicer than a blue screen with a cryptic error message (remember the infamous: "Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?") both is not what you want to see. There is no such thing like bug-free software so the occasional crash is part of life - just like your mount not guiding properly. If it happens frequently or even regularly then something is wrong with your setup.

If you want to run PI under Linux the most straightforward way is to create a Linux USB boot stick. The next step would be to create a linux partition on your PC:
How to Dual Boot Any Linux Distribution With Windows – and Get Rid of It When You Need To (freecodecamp.org)

You could also run Linux in a Virtual box under Windows but this just introduces an additional layer which may fail. I would prefer the dual boot solution.

Clear skies
Wolfgang

Wolfgang, I’m not bashing windows or Pixinsight, rather stating some issues I run into using 2 different computers. Strictly for informational purposes.

I’ve read about the Linux virtual box though I couldn’t remember the actual name but yes it runs in the windows platform. I do not like the idea for the same reason you mention, adds another layer for problems.

I’ll continue to save my work multiple times throughout my workflow unless I figure out what the underlying issue actually is.

Dale

11.54 Die Launische Diva ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
You could also run Linux in a Virtual box under Windows but this just introduces an additional layer which may fail. I would prefer the dual boot solution. There is also the Windows Subsystem for Linux, but for anyone wanting to try the dual-boot route, I strongly suggest to spend a few $$/€€ and purchase another fast SSD. Install there whatever Linux flavor the PI developers recommend. You will have the best of both worlds. While not necessary, a separate SSD drive for a dual-boot system is the safest choice (but don't ask me how I know that!). Edited ... Like

11.54

Die Launische Diva

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You could also run Linux in a Virtual box under Windows but this just introduces an additional layer which may fail. I would prefer the dual boot solution.

There is also the Windows Subsystem for Linux, but for anyone wanting to try the dual-boot route, I strongly suggest to spend a few $$/€€ and purchase another fast SSD. Install there whatever Linux flavor the PI developers recommend. You will have the best of both worlds. While not necessary, a separate SSD drive for a dual-boot system is the safest choice (but don't ask me how I know that!).

Edited ...

9.62 Jerry Yesavage ... · view views · 2 likes · Share link
I run a large research lab at Stanford and have all sorts of computers running all sorts of Linux and Windows on different processors. My choice has long been a Dell Precision laptop running either and I7 or Xenon processor with 32 GB. I just like the trans-portability to take to the office or on travel. PI has some processes that benefit from a large number of cores, so that matters but I do not need lightning speed and many processes need to run in series.. so it is really processor speed that counts… some of my 10 years old Dell are faster than the newer ones that watch power carefully. I have several other computers and run some basic data processing on them, like subframe selection, and they run in the background. All integrated on OneDrive. I would not underestimate the networking issues with Linux in a mixed environment. We have three big servers two running Linux and if you want to integrate you need some experience. In my day job all eventually goes to AWS. That is integrated. Like

9.62

Jerry Yesavage

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I run a large research lab at Stanford and have all sorts of computers running all sorts of Linux and Windows on different processors. My choice has long been a Dell Precision laptop running either and I7 or Xenon processor with 32 GB. I just like the trans-portability to take to the office or on travel.

PI has some processes that benefit from a large number of cores, so that matters but I do not need lightning speed and many processes need to run in series.. so it is really processor speed that counts… some of my 10 years old Dell are faster than the newer ones that watch power carefully. I have several other computers and run some basic data processing on them, like subframe selection, and they run in the background. All integrated on OneDrive.

I would not underestimate the networking issues with Linux in a mixed environment. We have three big servers two running Linux and if you want to integrate you need some experience. In my day job all eventually goes to AWS. That is integrated.

4.95 Ian McIntyre ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
I would not underestimate the networking issues with Linux in a mixed environment. We have three big servers two running Linux and if you want to integrate you need some experience. In my day job all eventually goes to AWS. That is integrated. Do you have time to elaborate on what you mean by "mixed environment"? I would assume you mean a network where multiple OS platforms are running. That would strictly be a scalability issue and not something for us on a small home networks using 2 machines at most for processing, right? Like

4.95

Ian McIntyre

...

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I would not underestimate the networking issues with Linux in a mixed environment. We have three big servers two running Linux and if you want to integrate you need some experience. In my day job all eventually goes to AWS. That is integrated.

Do you have time to elaborate on what you mean by "mixed environment"? I would assume you mean a network where multiple OS platforms are running. That would strictly be a scalability issue and not something for us on a small home networks using 2 machines at most for processing, right?

4.95 Ian McIntyre ... · view views · Share link
Die Launische Diva: You could also run Linux in a Virtual box under Windows but this just introduces an additional layer which may fail. I would prefer the dual boot solution. There is also the Windows Subsystem for Linux, but for anyone wanting to try the dual-boot route, I strongly suggest to spend a few $$/€€ and purchase another fast SSD. Install there whatever Linux flavor the PI developers recommend. You will have the best of both worlds. While not necessary, a separate SSD drive for a dual-boot system is the safest choice (but don't ask me how I know that!). My experience with WINE (the Linux Windows subsystem) is that it is not to be trusted for anything beyond entertainment. So, yes, separate boot for Linux/Windows is the way I would go every time. Regarding VM's: I learned pretty quickly that a Linux VM within a Windows parent is limited by resource hungry Windows. The opposite will bench much better (Win VM under Linux parent). But really, I won't VM for anything other than browsing security and OS distribution testing. I don't run crazy powerful Xeon machines, which is all I would trust for true VM productivity. Like

4.95

Ian McIntyre

...

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Die Launische Diva:
You could also run Linux in a Virtual box under Windows but this just introduces an additional layer which may fail. I would prefer the dual boot solution.

There is also the Windows Subsystem for Linux, but for anyone wanting to try the dual-boot route, I strongly suggest to spend a few $$/€€ and purchase another fast SSD. Install there whatever Linux flavor the PI developers recommend. You will have the best of both worlds. While not necessary, a separate SSD drive for a dual-boot system is the safest choice (but don't ask me how I know that!).

My experience with WINE (the Linux Windows subsystem) is that it is not to be trusted for anything beyond entertainment. So, yes, separate boot for Linux/Windows is the way I would go every time.
Regarding VM's: I learned pretty quickly that a Linux VM within a Windows parent is limited by resource hungry Windows. The opposite will bench much better (Win VM under Linux parent). But really, I won't VM for anything other than browsing security and OS distribution testing. I don't run crazy powerful Xeon machines, which is all I would trust for true VM productivity.

9.62 Jerry Yesavage ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
Ian McIntyre: I would not underestimate the networking issues with Linux in a mixed environment. We have three big servers two running Linux and if you want to integrate you need some experience. In my day job all eventually goes to AWS. That is integrated. Do you have time to elaborate on what you mean by "mixed environment"? I would assume you mean a network where multiple OS platforms are running. That would strictly be a scalability issue and not something for us on a small home networks using 2 machines at most for processing, right? Mixed environment usually means 2 OS. There is a thing called Samba that allows cross-talk which I had to learn at one point when we had flight simulators in our Lab. The Sims ran in Linux and the data would up in a windows environment for data analysis I am sure it is easier to do nowadays, but there are always gotchas. Like I do not know if you can use OneDrive in Linux. All that VM stuff including the internal Windows stuff is not really ready for prime time. There is always overhead if not frank crashes. I could afford a new Linux box at home and I was looking at the latest processors, guess up to 16 cores are very feasible, one of my budies uses them, but I just do not have the energy to troubleshoot. Easier to have a couple cheap desktops on your network and have them run pedestrian processing and store files in OneDrive... I run on my wife's desktop They just use Photoshop or PI for the aesthetics on the Laptop... you can take the whole thing to Europe with no problem.... My Observatory is also on OneDrive and all the files show up there... but can be processed many places.... Like

9.62

Jerry Yesavage

...

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Ian McIntyre:
I would not underestimate the networking issues with Linux in a mixed environment. We have three big servers two running Linux and if you want to integrate you need some experience. In my day job all eventually goes to AWS. That is integrated.

Do you have time to elaborate on what you mean by "mixed environment"? I would assume you mean a network where multiple OS platforms are running. That would strictly be a scalability issue and not something for us on a small home networks using 2 machines at most for processing, right?

Mixed environment usually means 2 OS. There is a thing called Samba that allows cross-talk which I had to learn at one point when we had flight simulators in our Lab. The Sims ran in Linux and the data would up in a windows environment for data analysis I am sure it is easier to do nowadays, but there are always gotchas. Like I do not know if you can use OneDrive in Linux. All that VM stuff including the internal Windows stuff is not really ready for prime time. There is always overhead if not frank crashes.

I could afford a new Linux box at home and I was looking at the latest processors, guess up to 16 cores are very feasible, one of my budies uses them, but I just do not have the energy to troubleshoot. Easier to have a couple cheap desktops on your network and have them run pedestrian processing and store files in OneDrive... I run on my wife's desktop

They just use Photoshop or PI for the aesthetics on the Laptop... you can take the whole thing to Europe with no problem.... My Observatory is also on OneDrive and all the files show up there... but can be processed many places....

4.95 Ian McIntyre ... · view views · Share link
^Thanks for clarifying. When I first dabbled in Linux 25 years ago I would have never thought of using it for what I do now. It kind of seemed like networking was the one thing it did really well. But my knowledge of it (or any other IT topic) is far from a professional relationship at this point. And yes, as much as the sacrifice of performance is a reality, portability makes up for a lot. Edited ... Like

4.95

Ian McIntyre

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^Thanks for clarifying.
When I first dabbled in Linux 25 years ago I would have never thought of using it for what I do now. It kind of seemed like networking was the one thing it did really well. But my knowledge of it (or any other IT topic) is far from a professional relationship at this point.

And yes, as much as the sacrifice of performance is a reality, portability makes up for a lot.

Edited ...

1.20 Stephan Linhart ... · view views · Share link
I actually use both now, since I recently bought a Macbook Pro 14 pro with 16gb of Ram and 1tb ssd. My Workstation is an imac i9 with 40 gb of Ram. The imac is still faster in the WBPP due to the amount of ram. For many processes Pixinsight only uses 3 or 4 cores due to Ram limitation. On the post processing side it is a mixed bag. Some processes and scripts run a lot faster on the M1 (like StarXterminator) and some a bit slower ( like arc sinh stretch). If PI was optimized for Arm architecture, I believe it would be a lot faster than the i9. For now I do the pre processing on the Desktop machine and post on the Laptop after work on the couch out of convenience. This way I am much more motivated to do the processing as I can be with the family while doing the Hobby. The Desktop is in my work room and would be alone while processing. If I had to choose now, I would stick with the Laptop. But I can only chime in on the advice above, get the most RAM and cores you can afford and look for Laptops that do not or only very littly throttle performance on high workloads. But these are very expensive machines. But this mostly apply for the WBPP process, afterwards you will be fine with less performant machines. Especially if you use smaller previews for testing more extensive processing steps. Just to have it said, I love the Apple environment, bit I hate their price politics on RAM! And to the PI team, I really hope you can convince yourself to built a dedicated version for ARM Processors Cheers, Stephan Like

1.20

Stephan Linhart

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I actually use both now, since I recently bought a Macbook Pro 14 pro with 16gb of Ram and 1tb ssd.

My Workstation is an imac i9 with 40 gb of Ram.

The imac is still faster in the WBPP due to the amount of ram. For many processes Pixinsight only uses 3 or 4 cores due to Ram limitation.

On the post processing side it is a mixed bag.
Some processes and scripts run a lot faster on the M1 (like StarXterminator) and some a bit slower ( like arc sinh stretch).

If PI was optimized for Arm architecture, I believe it would be a lot faster than the i9.

For now I do the pre processing on the Desktop machine and post on the Laptop after work on the couch out of convenience.
This way I am much more motivated to do the processing as I can be with the family while doing the Hobby.
The Desktop is in my work room and would be alone while processing.

If I had to choose now, I would stick with the Laptop.

But I can only chime in on the advice above, get the most RAM and cores you can afford and look for Laptops that do not or only very littly throttle performance on high workloads. But these are very expensive machines. But this mostly apply for the WBPP process, afterwards you will be fine with less performant machines. Especially if you use smaller previews for testing more extensive processing steps.

Just to have it said, I love the Apple environment, bit I hate their price politics on RAM!

And to the PI team, I really hope you can convince yourself to built a dedicated version for ARM Processors smile

Cheers,

Stephan

11.54 Die Launische Diva ... · view views · Share link
Ian McIntyre: Die Launische Diva: You could also run Linux in a Virtual box under Windows but this just introduces an additional layer which may fail. I would prefer the dual boot solution. There is also the Windows Subsystem for Linux, but for anyone wanting to try the dual-boot route, I strongly suggest to spend a few $$/€€ and purchase another fast SSD. Install there whatever Linux flavor the PI developers recommend. You will have the best of both worlds. While not necessary, a separate SSD drive for a dual-boot system is the safest choice (but don't ask me how I know that!). My experience with WINE (the Linux Windows subsystem) is that it is not to be trusted for anything beyond entertainment. So, yes, separate boot for Linux/Windows is the way I would go every time. Regarding VM's: I learned pretty quickly that a Linux VM within a Windows parent is limited by resource hungry Windows. The opposite will bench much better (Win VM under Linux parent). But really, I won't VM for anything other than browsing security and OS distribution testing. I don't run crazy powerful Xeon machines, which is all I would trust for true VM productivity. For clarification, the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) is entirely different than WINE. It is developed from Microsoft and it is available for Win 10 as a compatibility layer for running Linux natively on Windows. Personally I have used it for some software development tasks and it works fine. PI can be installed under WSL and a user reports that it runs fine there, see: https://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?threads/pixinsight-running-well-in-wsl-cuda-next.17977/ Like

11.54

Die Launische Diva

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Ian McIntyre:
Die Launische Diva:
You could also run Linux in a Virtual box under Windows but this just introduces an additional layer which may fail. I would prefer the dual boot solution.

There is also the Windows Subsystem for Linux, but for anyone wanting to try the dual-boot route, I strongly suggest to spend a few $$/€€ and purchase another fast SSD. Install there whatever Linux flavor the PI developers recommend. You will have the best of both worlds. While not necessary, a separate SSD drive for a dual-boot system is the safest choice (but don't ask me how I know that!).

My experience with WINE (the Linux Windows subsystem) is that it is not to be trusted for anything beyond entertainment. So, yes, separate boot for Linux/Windows is the way I would go every time.
Regarding VM's: I learned pretty quickly that a Linux VM within a Windows parent is limited by resource hungry Windows. The opposite will bench much better (Win VM under Linux parent). But really, I won't VM for anything other than browsing security and OS distribution testing. I don't run crazy powerful Xeon machines, which is all I would trust for true VM productivity.

For clarification, the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) is entirely different than WINE. It is developed from Microsoft and it is available for Win 10 as a compatibility layer for running Linux natively on Windows. Personally I have used it for some software development tasks and it works fine. PI can be installed under WSL and a user reports that it runs fine there, see: https://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?threads/pixinsight-running-well-in-wsl-cuda-next.17977/

4.95 Ian McIntyre ... · view views · Share link
^ohhh…I was not aware of that. Thanks for clarifying. Like

0.90 Adrian Knagg-Baugh ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
I upgraded my 10 year old laptop last year. The replacement was chosen with astro in mind and it has an 8 core / 16 thread Zen 2 processor, 16GB RAM, 2.5TB NVME storage and an integrated GeForce 1650. I'm sure a beefy desktop could offer more performance, but the laptop is certainly very suitable and the portability is very handy for carrying out to the telescope to look at the Ekos display while fiddling with PA etc. Like

0.90

Adrian Knagg-Baugh

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I upgraded my 10 year old laptop last year. The replacement was chosen with astro in mind and it has an 8 core / 16 thread Zen 2 processor, 16GB RAM, 2.5TB NVME storage and an integrated GeForce 1650. I'm sure a beefy desktop could offer more performance, but the laptop is certainly very suitable and the portability is very handy for carrying out to the telescope to look at the Ekos display while fiddling with PA etc.

3.82 Ed Dixon ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
DELL desktop with 32GB RAM and I7 processor. This is much faster than the miniPC I use for capture and monitoring. Data captured to a 1 TB SSD and then loaded on to DELL later for all post processing. The DELL has a separate 1TB SSD for local processing and storage, in addition to regular memory. Like

Roger Menard ... · view views · 1 like · Share link
There are some processes in Pixinsight that are extremely processing intensive. I use a desktop computer with a high speed i9 processor and as much memory as I can fit in the machine. I also use SSD for storage. Like

0.90 Larry S ... · view views · 2 likes · Share link
I use an Asus StudioBook Pro 17", it is actually faster than my desktop. The GPU is not fully used by PixInsight, unfortunately. The only downside is that during some intensive operations, like ImageIntegration or NSG script, it gets pretty hot on back of the case. I don't use WBPP. Like

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Do you use a laptop or a desk computer for stacking and processing? Other · Daniel Arenas · ... · 38 · 1490 · 0

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Do you use a laptop or a desk computer for stacking and processing? Other · Daniel Arenas · ... · 38 · 1490 · 0

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