Soap or at least some of the ingredients in some of the liquid soaps in the market are actually used to strip off coatings. Good luck!
As a side note: smudges on a corrector have zip-zero-null-rien-nada effect on the optical performance of a cat.
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I suppose I'll have to check, the main brand in Norway is used by people who clean their newts quite often so I think I should be good to go - but it doesn't hurt to verify.
That's good to know.
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Ashraf AbuSara:
Hey John that is interesting to read. Thanks for the clarification. I used my personal experience with the C11 which is a closed tube with no vents, and reflective insulator was working well for my situation.
But I am not understanding the point here so maybe you can elaborate on it. If the fans are keeping the inside of the tube close or equal to the outside ambient air, what would the purpose of the insulator be in that situation? Aren't the fans defeating the purpose of the insulator? Hi Ashraf, Remember that there are three mechanisms for heat transfer: Conduction (through solids and liquids), Convection (through gas and liquids), and radiation (radiative energy transfer). Reflectix helps to reduce heat loss in the OTA through radiative heat exchange with the sky. Adding the fans helps to mix outside air into the OTA to help keep the interior at the air temperature through convection. Unless there is fog, the temperature of the air is always above the dew point and that's why mixing ambient air inside the tube helps to hold the temperature above the dew point. As I've said, moving the air around a little bit with fans also helps to break up baffle plumes and to better mix the air inside the OTA for better imaging performance. John
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John Hayes:
Add the fans and the Reflectix first to see how it works. I doubt that you will need additional heat.
Are these the ones you are referring to?
They look neat, but pricey. If I could run those off my Asiair it could be a viable option for me as well. Adding Reflectix is a rather cheap addition though as long as it's not creating reflection issues for nearby optics, and easily attached around all the upper losmandy.
Yes, that is what you want. They are a bit pricy and they look so small that it's hard to imagine that they could do anything at all. However, in my experience, those fans were a VERY good investment in improving the performance of my C14s. They are effective at reducing the chances of dew and frost and they do an amazing job of breaking up baffle plumes. I thought that the performance improvements that they produced were well worth the cost. John
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John Hayes:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Hey John that is interesting to read. Thanks for the clarification. I used my personal experience with the C11 which is a closed tube with no vents, and reflective insulator was working well for my situation.
But I am not understanding the point here so maybe you can elaborate on it. If the fans are keeping the inside of the tube close or equal to the outside ambient air, what would the purpose of the insulator be in that situation? Aren't the fans defeating the purpose of the insulator?
Hi Ashraf,
Remember that there are three mechanisms for heat transfer: Conduction (through solids and liquids), Convection (through gas and liquids), and radiation (radiative energy transfer). Reflectix helps to reduce heat loss in the OTA through radiative heat exchange with the sky. Adding the fans helps to mix outside air into the OTA to help keep the interior at the air temperature through convection. Unless there is fog, the temperature of the air is always above the dew point and that's why mixing ambient air inside the tube helps to hold the temperature above the dew point. As I've said, moving the air around a little bit with fans also helps to break up baffle plumbs and to better mix the air inside the OTA for better imaging performance.
John That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation John. Always educational.
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I use a "Cool Edge" SCT cooler from Starizona. Because I can't lift my C14 EdgeHD on and off the mount single-handed it has to stay outside all year. I attach the cooler when I take the Telegizmos cover off after the sun goes down and run it until I'm ready to image. Clears all the dew and fog from the primary and inside the corrector plate in a minute! Then the dew shield and straps keep things dew-free the rest of the night. Does double duty, as the name suggests, of rapidly cooling the mirror down to ambient even on the hottest summer days.
Arnie
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andrea tasselli:
Soap or at least some of the ingredients in some of the liquid soaps in the market are actually used to strip off coatings. Good luck!
As a side note: smudges on a corrector have zip-zero-null-rien-nada effect on the optical performance of a cat. I have stripped the coating from more primary mirrors than I'd like to remember, a mild soap solution is not a danger. I'm talking just a drop or two in a gallon of water.
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Tony Gondola:
andrea tasselli:
Soap or at least some of the ingredients in some of the liquid soaps in the market are actually used to strip off coatings. Good luck!
As a side note: smudges on a corrector have zip-zero-null-rien-nada effect on the optical performance of a cat.
I have stripped the coating from more primary mirrors than I'd like to remember, a mild soap solution is not a danger. I'm talking just a drop or two in a gallon of water. I completely agree! The only way that soapy water will remove a thin film coating is if the coating is defective. Celestron uses acetone to clean their correctors and I've used water+isopropyl alcohol for years with no problems. A small amount of soap (like a couple of drops) mixed with water is completely safe. John
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I really appreciate your responses here. You have answered many of my own questions in a good way. I'm on my phone replying now and forgot to check if I included an image of my corrector plate. This is how it looked after drying off inside. It's only visible when I shine a light towards it so it may not be a problem at all.  |
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Bruce Donzanti:
Arny:
I keep my EdgHD SCT outside all year under a weather cover and so far had problems.
But last week sfter freezing nights and high humidity I noticed in the morning that the primary mirror had fogged up.
a. How is this possible inside an almost entirely closed tube?
b. Has anyone made similiar experiences?
c. And how do I prevent this to happen?
Arny
If you want to leave it out all of the time, there are two things to do which may prevent thU@@is .....and I did this with my C11" EdgeHD for years living in the San Francisco Bay area.
Get a Telemgizo 365 Series cover PLUS a GoldenRod Dehumidifier rod placed tangling just below the scope under the cover. And loosely tighten the cover at the bottom. It helps prevent the fog and dew on the corrector plate, secondary mirror and primary mirror=16px *** |
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Bruce Donzanti:
Arny:
I keep my EdgHD SCT outside all year under a weather cover and so far had problems.
But last week sfter freezing nights and high humidity I noticed in the morning that the primary mirror had fogged up.
a. How is this possible inside an almost entirely closed tube?
b. Has anyone made similiar experiences?
c. And how do I prevent this to happen?
Arny
If you want to leave it out all of the time, there are two things to do which may prevent thU@@is .....and I did this with my C11" EdgeHD for years living in the San Francisco Bay area.
Get a Telemgizo 365 Series cover PLUS a GoldenRod Dehumidifier rod placed tangling just below the scope under the cover. And loosely tighten the cover at the bottom. It helps prevent the fog and dew on the corrector plate, secondary mirror and primary mirror=16px ***
I do the same with my scopes.
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Question about insulation which I've started to work on now. How should it be placed? I did one covering the white tube itself, but should it cover the cast black metal as well? That would involve cutouts for the fans, losmandy bars, finder scope etc.
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andrea tasselli:
Just the tube will do. Thanks, Andrea!
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Small update, I've got my telescope insulated (double layered) around the tube. I've also installed the fans tonight. I will be insulating the dew shield as well but I'm still unsure whether I need to clean the corrector or not. Might get it outside to do some planetary tomorrow if I get a break from the clouds.  |
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I used to clean my corrector (outside) once a year, kind of spring clean of sorts. But I was using my Mak *every* clear (and not so clear) night. YMMV.
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I've put the scope with the rear end upwards in the bathroom on warm tiles for now, with the rear covered with a thin layer of toilet paper to prevent most of the dust getting in. If there is moisture still remaining inside I figured I might as well give it a try before I unscrew the corrector.
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I installed two dry air delivery devices on the hood of my C11, configured so that heavy, dry air flows from the top to the bottom. As a result, it no longer fogs up. Since the area near the secondary mirror, which is not visible during imaging, tends to fog up, it’s better to operate the Dew Heater Ring simultaneously. However, if used carelessly, it may cause the image to blur. This is based on my experience at a mountain altitude of 900 meters and about -5°C. The device is simple and uses a case typically designed to keep canned drinks cool in summer. First, place a 10W aquarium air pump inside the case. Then, drill two holes in the case's lid for the delivery and intake tubes. Inside the case, fill it with a large amount of silica gel to bury the pump. Finally, attach the air tubes to the appropriate parts of your setup. If you test it on a foggy area, you’ll see the fog clear within 2–3 seconds. This device has a small airflow, but it delivers an effect similar to that of a hot hairdryer. It has proven effective not only in cold regions but also near lakes, dams, and coastal areas. One point to note is that silica gel contains fine particles, so if you don’t use an air pump with a filter, you might experience something like a “diamond dust” phenomenon. Therefore, depending on the situation, I recommend cleaning your mirrors on a roughly three-month cycle. Silica gel can be restored from pink to purple by heating it in a frying pan or microwave every two to three nights.For Newtonian telescopes, it’s helpful to drill a hole near the primary mirror at the bottom and attach a tube near the focuser as well.I hope you find this helpful.  |
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Small update, I've got my telescope insulated (double layered) around the tube. I've also installed the fans tonight. I will be insulating the dew shield as well but I'm still unsure whether I need to clean the corrector or not.
Might get it outside to do some planetary tomorrow if I get a break from the clouds.
mine has gone through the exact same upgrade :-) and hasn‘t fogged up since
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That's good to hear, Arny. Seems like I have to do some cleaning myself before I get it back running. A day on constantly heated floors did not do anything to the remaining fog.
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That's good to hear, Arny. Seems like I have to do some cleaning myself before I get it back running. A day on constantly heated floors did not do anything to the remaining fog. thats weird - are you sure its fog and have you tried to turn the fans on to exchange the air in the tube?
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Arny:
thats weird - are you sure its fog and have you tried to turn the fans on to exchange the air in the tube? Can't say for sure exactly what it was, but it looked like a hazy layer on the glass. I removed the corrector this afternoon and gave it a good cleaning, unfortunately I noticed some spots that I should have worked some more on after I re-installed it. I didn't manage to get it out again but it looks much better than it did before though:  No more haziness but as you can see by the light there are some minor cleaning spots left. I was unable to loosen the two lower screws holding the corrector, but I managed to get the two upper ones just enough to get it out and back again once. Not sure why it was so hard to get them. I didn't think I had to do anything but loosen the grub screws.
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Arny:
thats weird - are you sure its fog and have you tried to turn the fans on to exchange the air in the tube?
Can't say for sure exactly what it was, but it looked like a hazy layer on the glass. I removed the corrector this afternoon and gave it a good cleaning, unfortunately I noticed some spots that I should have worked some more on after I re-installed it. I didn't manage to get it out again but it looks much better than it did before though:
No more haziness but as you can see by the light there are some minor cleaning spots left.
I was unable to loosen the two lower screws holding the corrector, but I managed to get the two upper ones just enough to get it out and back again once. Not sure why it was so hard to get them. I didn't think I had to do anything but loosen the grub screws.
*** Put the screw you took out back in and slightly tighten.... now try loosing other screws. I find it best to loosen each screw gradually in turn... but not one completely removed. If you do it can cause other screws to bind. When you removed corrector it is important to keep same rotation as it was before when replacing as the corrector is matched or indexed to the mirror in final figuring. ***
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I know, everything was marked and put in place as it should. It also had factory markings. About the grub screws, I could only loosen two of them ever so slightly. I couldn't have got them out even if I tried, at least not without breaking something. The two lower screws I could not get a hold of no matter what size umbraco key I went for. I did not try to force anything as that would only cause harm, but they all seemed to have some kind of loctite on them.
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I know, everything was marked and put in place as it should. It also had factory markings. About the grub screws, I could only loosen two of them ever so slightly. I couldn't have got them out even if I tried, at least not without breaking something. The two lower screws I could not get a hold of no matter what size umbraco key I went for. I did not try to force anything as that would only cause harm, but they all seemed to have some kind of loctite on them. ***Was your scope new or used? No way would it come from factory with lLoctite on those screws. If new those screws are Allen screws. Many people, including me, replace them with thumb screws. In any case they should only be finger tight. When collimating you slightly loosen one or two screws before snugging opposing one or two down. If Loctite was used you can use a soldering iron to heat the screws a bit and soften the adhesive. The secondary mirror won't be affected.***
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