ZWO is a company that's on a roll. Astrophotography is admittedly a niche industry but they're rolling in some dough.
That being said, there's a few things about recent releases where I'm kind of scratching my head, but I'm no expert. I'm a Cleveland Browns fan, so I can't be THAT smart!
I'm just curious why…
1. There isn't an M43-size sensor with 533 / 2600 "tech" in it (no amp glow). That's a BIG gap in sensor size. In visual astronomy, this would be like dobsonian line offering a 6" and 10" scopes but no 8" dobs.
2. Why is there no 533MC-Duo / Air?
3. Seriously. Why did they make an Air version of the 585 and not the 533? And speaking of that…
4. Why is the guiding chip on the SIDE of the main sensor's long axis, not above/below it? That requires a needlessly large imaging circle for such a small sensor, but that's just my 2.6-cent's worth* on the matter.
Thoughts?
Clear Skies,
Phil
*(really just worth 2 cents. I had to tack on the 30% tariff. Rate subject to change without notice.)
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Personally I'm against the "all in one" solutions they seem to be forcing upon us. The IMX585 Pro cameras seem to be discontinued, so in order to get one you would HAVE to buy the one with the air incorporated. You cannot use it with other software and if something goes wrong that's your entire setup gone in stead of a replacable component. Guiding chip together with the imaging chip is old news and didn't catch on in the past for a reason, useless with narrowband and narrower F-ratios. The new "Pro" version of the EAF is bound to be replacing the old one when it gets released as well. Who asked for a wireless focuser? Knowing the wireless reliability on their other products I surely wouldn't.
I'm kind of feeling like they are trying to innovate for the sake of innovation in stead of really focusing on product/reliability improvements. If so it's a sad development. They wouldn't need to in order to stay relevant or popular. Deep down I hope the Asiair competitors make it big.
1 - This isn't a ZWO thing. If the sensors were available they would probably offer such a camera. But they don't need to.
2 - Why should there be, I'd much rather keep the cameras as they are.
3 - Read above.
4 - Agreed, but the entire idea of combining the sensors is completely useless in the first place.
My 2 cents
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It's called marketing guys. Look at how many "smart" telescopes are being sold. The goal of any company is to expand its sales. Zwo doesn't want to be limited to selling just to hardcore astrophotography geeks, a phrase I use proudly, but to as many people as possible. The more you dumb things down and make things simpler to use, the more you will sell.
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Tony Gondola:
It's called marketing guys. Look at how many "smart" telescopes are being sold. The goal of any company is to expand its sales. Zwo doesn't want to be limited to selling just to hardcore astrophotography geeks, a phrase I use proudly, but to as many people as possible. The more you dumb things down and make things simpler to use, the more you will sell. I agree provided we look at it with our business glasses on, I'm just stating my view on it as a consumer though. They are approaching the line where they start losing business in the other end as they try to cater for the less hardcore astrophotography geeks  They're not only practicing a locked eco system anymore, they're throwing away the key as well. This is purely based off of how I'm starting to feel about it though. I was contemplating getting a 585 PRO as a fun little camera to go along with my larger ones. But now that I have to order the Air version I simply wont. At least not from them, which again would lead me to venture outside their eco-system as a whole. I don't think I'm the only one. It's like buying a new car in order to get a new set of wheels.
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Jan Erik Vallestad:
Tony Gondola:
It's called marketing guys. Look at how many "smart" telescopes are being sold. The goal of any company is to expand its sales. Zwo doesn't want to be limited to selling just to hardcore astrophotography geeks, a phrase I use proudly, but to as many people as possible. The more you dumb things down and make things simpler to use, the more you will sell.
I agree provided we look at it with our business glasses on, I'm just stating my view on it as a consumer though. They are approaching the line where they start losing business in the other end as they try to cater for the less hardcore astrophotography geeks They're not only practicing a locked eco system anymore, they're throwing away the key as well. This is purely based off of how I'm starting to feel about it though.
I was contemplating getting a 585 PRO as a fun little camera to go along with my larger ones. But now that I have to order the Air version I simply wont. At least not from them, which again would lead me to venture outside their eco-system as a whole. I don't think I'm the only one. It's like buying a new car in order to get a new set of wheels. May as well go for a Minicam 8.....
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Jan Erik Vallestad:
I was contemplating getting a 585 PRO as a fun little camera Where are you seeing they are discontinued? The camera just came out last year and most retailers in the US still show them in stock.
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Jan Erik Vallestad:
I was contemplating getting a 585 PRO as a fun little camera
Where are you seeing they are discontinued? The camera just came out last year and most retailers in the US still show them in stock.
As long as stocks last those will be available from resellers, but we who order directly from ZWO can't get it. The price difference when all is said and done usually are in the hundreds (dollars). If you go to their website both the MC and MM versions are unavailable unless you choose the Air. I'm not saying it's 100% discontinued, but as I said it seems like it. Especially since they are unavailable now that they released the new all-in-one cameras. I might be in the wrong though! The same seems to go for other cameras as well. I recently enquired about the 462mm which also is unavailable from their store, but they just referred me to some other cameras with different pixel sizes and specs without even answering me whether it was discontinued or not.
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Tony Gondola:
Jan Erik Vallestad:
Tony Gondola:
It's called marketing guys. Look at how many "smart" telescopes are being sold. The goal of any company is to expand its sales. Zwo doesn't want to be limited to selling just to hardcore astrophotography geeks, a phrase I use proudly, but to as many people as possible. The more you dumb things down and make things simpler to use, the more you will sell.
I agree provided we look at it with our business glasses on, I'm just stating my view on it as a consumer though. They are approaching the line where they start losing business in the other end as they try to cater for the less hardcore astrophotography geeks They're not only practicing a locked eco system anymore, they're throwing away the key as well. This is purely based off of how I'm starting to feel about it though.
I was contemplating getting a 585 PRO as a fun little camera to go along with my larger ones. But now that I have to order the Air version I simply wont. At least not from them, which again would lead me to venture outside their eco-system as a whole. I don't think I'm the only one. It's like buying a new car in order to get a new set of wheels.
May as well go for a Minicam 8..... That would surely be an option. I think those packages are good value by the looks of it - although I don't know anything about the filters they use and whether they hold up compared to the ones i already have. I'm very keen to see if any of the Asiair competitors will rise to the challenge though. That will open up the market quite a bit I reckon.
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My 2 cents
I am not personally in favour of "Air" series of cameras after having already invested in ASI Air Pro. For new buyers who do not have the ASI Air it may make sense, but then you are limited with only one camera. Whereas the ASI Air can be used with multiple cameras including DSLR's etc.
However I am in favour of "Duo" series with a guiding sensor integrated and OAG as this saves the entire guiding setup
I have full ZWO setup including AM5N mount, ASI 533 MC Pro, ASI 120 MC etc and am happy with the performance sofar. In coming months plan to invest in ASI 2600MC as a next camera. May opt for the Duo version with an OAG.
Thanks
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I have noticed they have done some odd things lately. The ZWO implementation of the 585 sensor is flawed and their competitors are offering better thought out products often at a better price, their line of guide cameras have been so stripped down that it is strange. They didn't replace the 290 sensor with the 462 like others have, leaving a gap in the lineup. I think Player One and ToupTek have been eating away at their core business and honestly QHY have been innovating their pants off with cameras like the Minicam 8 and QHY 5III585M/C and 5III715C planetary and guide cameras in a mini format. I think ZWO may be trying to pivot towards new markets to try and protect their bottom line. I get it from a business end but they aren't the segment leader they once were for the hardcore imager.
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The Duo is their weirdest gimmick. Did anyone even ask for it? It makes no sense to me why they’re pushing it so hard.
On the other hand their new guide scope is quite good.
And yes, they really need to make a 4/3” camera with no amp glow.
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Aloke Palsikar:
My 2 cents
I am not personally in favour of "Air" series of cameras after having already invested in ASI Air Pro. For new buyers who do not have the ASI Air it may make sense, but then you are limited with only one camera. Whereas the ASI Air can be used with multiple cameras including DSLR's etc.
However I am in favour of "Duo" series with a guiding sensor integrated and OAG as this saves the entire guiding setup
I have full ZWO setup including AM5N mount, ASI 533 MC Pro, ASI 120 MC etc and am happy with the performance sofar. In coming months plan to invest in ASI 2600MC as a next camera. May opt for the Duo version with an OAG.
Thanks It's a shame that the technology isn't advanced enough to be able to use the same chip to both guide and image. It's something I've thought could be possible with the right design approach.
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Joe Linington:
I have noticed they have done some odd things lately. The ZWO implementation of the 585 sensor is flawed and their competitors are offering better thought out products often at a better price, their line of guide cameras have been so stripped down that it is strange. They didn't replace the 290 sensor with the 462 like others have, leaving a gap in the lineup. I think Player One and ToupTek have been eating away at their core business and honestly QHY have been innovating their pants off with cameras like the Minicam 8 and QHY 5III585M/C and 5III715C planetary and guide cameras in a mini format. I think ZWO may be trying to pivot towards new markets to try and protect their bottom line. I get it from a business end but they aren't the segment leader they once were for the hardcore imager. The minicam8 could be the reason the 585pro has been dropped, if it has. Given that the 585 is an entry level sensor, it's hard to compete in terms of price. They could come out with something similar but I don't know that it could be offered for less.
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Dan H. M.:
The Duo is their weirdest gimmick. Did anyone even ask for it? It makes no sense to me why they’re pushing it so hard.
On the other hand their new guide scope is quite good.
And yes, they really need to make a 4/3” camera with no amp glow. Cameras with integrated guide chips have been around since the mid 2000's and have been used by professionals and amateurs to create utterly breathtaking images through very narrow bandpass filters. I don't know why people have acted like zwo pioneered this idea, but they didn't, and if zwo cameras with integrated guide cameras aren't capable of guiding through 3nm narrowband filters reasonably, that's poor quality components and implementation on ZWOs part...
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