Crazy idea: action cam as mobile all sky camera Generic equipment discussions · Astrogerdt · ... · 14 · 470 · 3

Astrogerdt 0.90
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Hello, 

for some time, I have been thinking about getting a mobile all sky camera. In my backyard, I don't have enough unobstructed sky to actually make use of this, so I need it to be mobile enough. Ideally, I would like to program imaging sequences via a web interface or app using my smartphone and power the device via a powerbank or car battery. 

However, the commercially available options are quite expensive and not all that mobile. A DIY solution might work, but getting it to a really comfortable level of practicability and ease of use may be hard. 

So I came up with a quite crazy idea: why not use an action camera as a mobile all sky cam? I know they are not tailored to our use case, but still, this seems like an option. 

In principle, this seems quite good to me. The camera is already enclosed and weather sealed, so a little rain won't really hurt it if I ever leave it outside while I am not imaging. 
Additionally, most expensive models are capable to image in RAW format, so I also have the option to stack some images and process them. 
Many models are also capable of using an external power supply, so I could quickly set up the camera while imaging to capture some all sky images alongside my main imaging rig. This would mitigate the weather sealing, but I probably won't need that all that often while I am imaging anyway ;)
There is also the option of using a 360° camera to capture the whole scene, including my setup at work + the sky and surroundings. Which could be interesting at least. I could always throw away the part that is not covering the sky, however, I am really unsure of the image quality of those cameras for our purposes, there may be some very extreme distortions. 
Mounting the camera to a tripod should also be straight forward, the manufacturers include mounting options. 

This would allow me to easily capture all sky images for meteors or general documentary purposes during the night. 

Currently, I consider the following options: 
GoPro Hero 13 Black
Insta360 Ace Pro 2
DJI Osmo Action 5 Pro
Insta360 X4

However, this seems to be a little too good to me. It covers basically everything I would need, and I suspect if it were that good, others would be using it already. But I can find very little experience about this online. 

So, is there anyone out there using an action cam for such purposes? I would be interested in some reports regarding the image quality and maybe even some images you captured that way. 
Or do you guys see an obvious flaw in my idea that I am overlooking?

Thanks and CS
Gerrit
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andreatax 9.89
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I'd never ever ever consider them and if I were to do such a thing (which I did) it would be using a fisheye lens attached to an ordinary DSLR/Mirrorless, which can be powered by a 12V supply.
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rodolgo-outlook 0.90
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Interesting!
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. 
Maybe a lack of sensitivity? Or storage ?
I don’t have any such camera, but if I had, I would try it.
In the worse case it would fail, a great way to learn. 
I wouldn’t try the DSLR approach unless the camera is weatherproof.
My 2 cents.
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WhooptieDo 10.40
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Pound for pound, you won't beat a Wyze cam.  It will probably perform just the same as your aforementioned cameras, probably better, and they typically only cost 20 bucks.  I used to use them for awhile.   They're also usb powered and waterproof.

For what it's worth, if you were willing to spend the prices on something like the GoPros and Insta360s, you could spend the same amount of money on a used (uncooled) 585MC or 533MC (533 is best but harder to find since it was discontinued).  With that camera you can continue to go cheap and put a wide angle CS lens on it, or save up a few more bucks and get the Meike 3.5mm with an M4T adapter.

Here's a time lapse from back when I used the Wyze.   You can also reflash their firmware to support RTSP, then display the video in either NINA or VLC on your computer.
https://app.astrobin.com/i/45snwo
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WhooptieDo 10.40
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To follow up with, this is the 585MC with Meike 3.5mm lense setup:
https://app.astrobin.com/i/pfqlvc

Image is post edited a bit to boost the colors.   I figured it's worth sharing since technically you'd only be spending 100 or so more than those cameras you mentioned above.  The meike will often come down in price to just over 100 dollars.  The 585MC is not the perfect sensor, as you can see.  The square sensor of the 533MC is the ideal winner, but since it's been discontinued, any one on the used market gets gobbled up the second it gets posted.
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Astrogerdt 0.90
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Hi all, 

thanks for your answers!
andrea tasselli:
I'd never ever ever consider them and if I were to do such a thing (which I did) it would be using a fisheye lens attached to an ordinary DSLR/Mirrorless, which can be powered by a 12V supply.

Could you name some arguments, that strictly exclude action cameras?

Brian Puhl:
Pound for pound, you won't beat a Wyze cam.  It will probably perform just the same as your aforementioned cameras, probably better, and they typically only cost 20 bucks.  I used to use them for awhile.   They're also usb powered and waterproof.

For what it's worth, if you were willing to spend the prices on something like the GoPros and Insta360s, you could spend the same amount of money on a used (uncooled) 585MC or 533MC (533 is best but harder to find since it was discontinued).  With that camera you can continue to go cheap and put a wide angle CS lens on it, or save up a few more bucks and get the Meike 3.5mm with an M4T adapter.

Here's a time lapse from back when I used the Wyze.   You can also reflash their firmware to support RTSP, then display the video in either NINA or VLC on your computer.
https://app.astrobin.com/i/45snwo

The Wyze cam is pretty cheap, but honestly the quality of the video you posted is not really what I would like to get. The few images I found from action cameras like the GoPro were better, but they are images, so hard to compare to a video file. 
May be still worth a closer look!

In theory, your option of buying a dedicated astro camera definitely delivers the better images. However, I have doubts about making it really mobile and easy to operate. I would need a laptop or raspberry pi for that purpose, which is more, than I would like to power on the go. In this regard, action cameras are very easy to operate. 

As for the video from your second post, that is more similar to the quality I would like to get from this project. 

CS Gerrit
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andreatax 9.89
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Could you name some arguments, that strictly exclude action cameras?


Why settle for an inferior product? At the same price point, potentially? Something not designed for night sky photography on top of that. Quality wise there is no comparison.
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WhooptieDo 10.40
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The Wyze cam is pretty cheap, but honestly the quality of the video you posted is not really what I would like to get. The few images I found from action cameras like the GoPro were better, but they are images, so hard to compare to a video file. 
May be still worth a closer look!

In theory, your option of buying a dedicated astro camera definitely delivers the better images. However, I have doubts about making it really mobile and easy to operate. I would need a laptop or raspberry pi for that purpose, which is more, than I would like to power on the go. In this regard, action cameras are very easy to operate. 

As for the video from your second post, that is more similar to the quality I would like to get from this project. 

CS Gerrit



I think you might have an unreal expectation of what those 'action' cameras can do.  Last I checked, they're the last thing you want during the night.    If you have something to back the claims, I'd love to see it....  You aren't wrong, the Wyze video quality is not as good as the still image quality.  It gets compressed a bit.

As for building the dedicated astro cam, it's quite the opposite.   You can easily add on a J4125 mini PC that is almost the same size as the camera itself, mount the camera on top of the PC and build a PVC tube with a dome, or go more traditional and built it into a junction box, which is what I have shown above.    The minipc's are just over 100 bucks and operate a max of 10 watts, so you could easily build a battery pack into them, or power via POE.
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bdm201170 8.64
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Hi



Starlight Xpress - Oculus PRO All Sky CCD Camera with 180 Lens or 150 lens  (Mono)

The Oculus PRO All-Sky Camera is designed to provide high Quality sky images for weather and meteor observations. The core of this camera is based on the super-sensitive 1.4 megapixel ‘Ultrastar PRO’, it comes with the 1.55mm f2 180 degree ‘Fish-Eye’ lens giving you horizon to horizon coverage. The new PRO version has built in Dew Detection which only turns the internal dew heater on when necessary so the camera itself is not heated when the humidity is low, increasing your signal to noise.

110-0023-redone_3.jpg
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andreatax 9.89
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Brian Diaz:
Hi



Starlight Xpress - Oculus PRO All Sky CCD Camera with 180 Lens or 150 lens  (Mono)

The Oculus PRO All-Sky Camera is designed to provide high Quality sky images for weather and meteor observations. The core of this camera is based on the super-sensitive 1.4 megapixel ‘Ultrastar PRO’, it comes with the 1.55mm f2 180 degree ‘Fish-Eye’ lens giving you horizon to horizon coverage. The new PRO version has built in Dew Detection which only turns the internal dew heater on when necessary so the camera itself is not heated when the humidity is low, increasing your signal to noise.

110-0023-redone_3.jpg

*At £829 it ain't cheap.
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Astrogerdt 0.90
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Brian Puhl:
I think you might have an unreal expectation of what those 'action' cameras can do.  Last I checked, they're the last thing you want during the night.    If you have something to back the claims, I'd love to see it....  You aren't wrong, the Wyze video quality is not as good as the still image quality.  It gets compressed a bit.

As for building the dedicated astro cam, it's quite the opposite.   You can easily add on a J4125 mini PC that is almost the same size as the camera itself, mount the camera on top of the PC and build a PVC tube with a dome, or go more traditional and built it into a junction box, which is what I have shown above.    The minipc's are just over 100 bucks and operate a max of 10 watts, so you could easily build a battery pack into them, or power via POE.

I don't really know what to expect myself, currently I am more hoping I guess ;)  However, here are some examples: 

360° panorama, although with some projection I don't fully understand: https://app.astrobin.com/i/9ivmle
This guy on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfp16CrHe9M    Processed a bit differently, if possible using the RAW data, I would consider this to be a decent video. 
Some random video on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imkeshavn/reel/CnMD-03KvNH/
And someone who has done a comparison, although without naming the file format, so it could very well be JPG: https://www.photoplanet360.com/2022/03/23/insta360-one-x2-under-the-sky/

So there are definitely some images out there, that look promising. Sure, not really the next image of the day, but far from bad I think. I would consider the first one to be really decent!

In addition, having 360° coverage could be interesting as this allows for a combination of sky + foreground in all directions in just one image. Taking one such camera with you, in case it delivers good quality, could replace 2 wide field cameras capturing independent targets. All those would be covered by this one image. 

andrea tasselli:
Could you name some arguments, that strictly exclude action cameras?


Why settle for an inferior product? At the same price point, potentially? Something not designed for night sky photography on top of that. Quality wise there is no comparison.

Valid point. 
For me, the main pro is that I have something more rigged that could be left out unsupervised, even if it rains. 
Of course only without external power supply, but I could do that and capture some nice timelapses that way. 
And the possibility of 360° images is something completely out of the range of DSLRs, but I am not sure of their quality. 
With such low weight and a rugged design, I could even use a flexible tripod and mount it anywhere, for example on trees or something else over soft ground. 

The starlight camera is clearly one of the best options out there. But in Germany, where I am from, that costs a bit over 1.4k€, so very expensive. And it is not all that mobile as I had hoped I could get it. 

CS Gerrit
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andreatax 9.89
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And the possibility of 360° images is something completely out of the range of DSLRs, but I am not sure of their quality.


*My fisheye and FF camera combo covers approximately 150degx120deg, so no full 360deg but close enough not to bother me much (but I also have a 13mm if I wish for more coverage). And it is very sharp.
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WhooptieDo 10.40
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Brian Puhl:
I think you might have an unreal expectation of what those 'action' cameras can do.  Last I checked, they're the last thing you want during the night.    If you have something to back the claims, I'd love to see it....  You aren't wrong, the Wyze video quality is not as good as the still image quality.  It gets compressed a bit.

As for building the dedicated astro cam, it's quite the opposite.   You can easily add on a J4125 mini PC that is almost the same size as the camera itself, mount the camera on top of the PC and build a PVC tube with a dome, or go more traditional and built it into a junction box, which is what I have shown above.    The minipc's are just over 100 bucks and operate a max of 10 watts, so you could easily build a battery pack into them, or power via POE.

I don't really know what to expect myself, currently I am more hoping I guess ;)  However, here are some examples: 

360° panorama, although with some projection I don't fully understand: https://app.astrobin.com/i/9ivmle
This guy on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfp16CrHe9M    Processed a bit differently, if possible using the RAW data, I would consider this to be a decent video. 
Some random video on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imkeshavn/reel/CnMD-03KvNH/
And someone who has done a comparison, although without naming the file format, so it could very well be JPG: https://www.photoplanet360.com/2022/03/23/insta360-one-x2-under-the-sky/

So there are definitely some images out there, that look promising. Sure, not really the next image of the day, but far from bad I think. I would consider the first one to be really decent!

In addition, having 360° coverage could be interesting as this allows for a combination of sky + foreground in all directions in just one image. Taking one such camera with you, in case it delivers good quality, could replace 2 wide field cameras capturing independent targets. All those would be covered by this one image. 


CS Gerrit



I will say that's rather impressive for a little camera.  You've piqued my curiosity.    I would have never expected to be able to do long exposures with something like that.   Insta360 might actually be a good one.   In the end, I'd still choose my home build setup which is already miles better than that Starlight mentioned above.
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Astrogerdt 0.90
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Yes, of course of a stationary operation, a DIY is much easier in my opinion. And the quality can be as good, as you can buy!

During the Sommer months, I can lend a insta 360 ace pro 2 from a friend, then I can do some tests with the manufacturer software and decide whether it is even worth a try. In case it is, I am increasingly inclined to test the 360 degree version by them. 

There is also an option from GoPro, which is the better branding as far as my research showed, but that says little about features for our needs. 

I will definitely keep investigating in this. 

Hopefully, I can get some experience from users of 360 degree camera, when I search for that directly instead of searching for action cameras in general. 

I will keep you guys updated! 

CS Gerrit
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Alexn 12.25
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I use a Wyze cam v3 powered off a usb powerbank. 

in normal mode it can just make out the milkyway in my Bortle 5 back yard, but in IR mode, the milky way is EASILY visible in winter...

Screenshot_20240716_201449_Wyze.jpg
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