Triangular giude stars with Zwo OAG-L [Deep Sky] Acquisition techniques · Christoph Müllner · ... · 10 · 400 · 3

cmuellner 0.00
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I'm using a RedCat 51 WIFD (50mm f/5) or a Sharpstar Z4 (100mm f/5.5) on an AM5 controlled via ASIAIR.
The main camera is an ASI2600MM, and the guide camera is a ZWO ASI120MM Mini.
About 9 months ago, I switched from a 30F4 guide scope to off-axis guiding (OAG-L).

When trying to get the guide scope in focus, I noticed that the star shapes were odd: either blurred and elongated or less blurred and triangular (depending on focus position).
I don't see such shapes in the frames captured by the main camera, and these weird shapes are present independently of the refractor used.
Initially, I did not care much about it and hoped it wouldn't matter anyway.

However, since I switched to the OAG-L, I see a significantly worse guiding error.
Before, I achieved an RMS error of 0,8" or below under excellent conditions or about 1" during an average night.
After switching to the OAG-L, I'm not even getting close to 1.2" anymore.
I suspect this comes from an issue of detecting the center of the guide star when it has such a weird shape.

Below is a screenshot of the triangular guide star as seen by the guide cam:

Screenshot_20250110-234444_ASIAIR.png

Here is the elongated form of the guide star:

Screenshot_20250110-234548_ASIAIR.png

Any idea what could cause these shapes and how to address this?
Also, do others observe such star shapes with their OAG-L?

Thanks in advance!
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ScottF 4.52
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Is that with both scopes? I've seen that when the scope cannot provide pinpoint stars that far off the axis. Is your prism up high, or is it just out of sight of the camera sensor? I'd put it in as far as you can and see what they look like then. Even a bit of defocus might help.
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Gondola 8.11
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Apparently, your scopes are mot producing round stars that far off axis. It can be one of the issues with OAG and really nothing you can do about it other than making sure the pick off prism isn't any further from the field then it needs to be to not be picked up on the chip. That means positioning the prism on the long side of the sensor and going in as far as you can.
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HR_Maurer 2.86
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This is  a common off axis optical aberration, as @Tony Gondola  mentioned. Guiding deformed stars shouldnt be an issue. You might want to keep the gain and exposure length of your guiding camera short enough to not blow out the guide star.
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cmuellner 0.00
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Thanks, Scott and Tony!

I checked the position of the mirror in the light train, and indeed, there is enough room to move it closer to the middle:

PXL_20250111_145341547.RAW-01.COVER.jpg

The thread on top (tilt plate in front of OAG) is M48.
Inside is M42 (from EFW).
The filters have a 36mm diameter.
The sensor is 23.5 x 15.7 mm (APS-C) with a diameter of 28 mm.
The mirror of the OAG has an effective size of 11.7 x 8.3 mm.

The mirror is centered around the M42 thread, resulting in a position about 17-25 mm from the center.
I want to avoid the mirror getting into the light beam (cone) to the main sensor.
Are there any recommendations on where to best place the mirror?

I am a bit surprised that the RedCat 51 produces such stars at the edge, as it supports  36 x 24 mm (FF) sensors with a diameter of 43 mm.
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andreatax 9.89
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Get it 2-3mm away from the projection of the edge of the prism onto the chip then take a flat, if you see the shade of the prism move it further away until there is no longer any shade. I recon the RC51 would support FF… with the help of BXT!
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cmuellner 0.00
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andrea tasselli:
Get it 2-3mm away from the projection of the edge of the prism onto the chip then take a flat, if you see the shade of the prism move it further away until there is no longer any shade.

Thanks for this idea!
This makes finding the best position a relatively simple task.
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robert.zibreg 1.20
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Mine look like small comets, no issue whatsoever to guiding. I'm around 0.4 total RMS
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DalePenkala 19.38
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Personally if I were using a Redcat 51 I’d just use a guide scope and camera. IMHO I don’t see a reason to go OAG but that’s up to you.
As far as your star shapes it’s not uncommon to have slightly elongated stars in your guide cam’s. I don’t have any issues and my stars are slightly elongated and I get .4 rms guiding regularly.

Just my 2 cents is all.
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Gerardoborn 0.00
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Chances are you're not even picking up the stars in the main image circle, but rather reflections or distortions of some description. I had this problem when I first set up my OAG and YES it did affect my guiding. Slightly defocus your scope and slowly move the OAG prism closer to the main imaging sensor until you start to see half circle, out of focus stars appearing. Continue moving it closer until the circles become full. Now refocus the main sensor and then the guide camera and you should have nice round guide stars and better guiding. This is what I did and my guiding went from 1.2-1.5 down to 0.5-0.7.
Edited ...
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ScottF 4.52
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The Redcat 51 is a nice scope, but the stars aren't that great on a FF sensor. Easily fixable with BxT though.
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