do dummy EAF counterweights exist? [Deep Sky] Acquisition techniques · Oscar · ... · 12 · 536 · 5

messierman3000 7.22
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I'm wondering how EAF users are handling 3rd axis imbalances, which ruin DEC guiding, if they're not using newts with downward facing cameras, or harmonic mounts

is there a dummy EAF that weighs 277 grams and that has a shaft that spins freely and can be attached to the other coarse/fine knob and has it's own focuser bracket that can overlap the real EAF bracket (or something like that), to counterbalance the EAF?

I used to have a clamp that came with a kit, for counterbalancing my EFW that I thought I might use for EAF counterbalancing, if I could clamp it to the OTA instead of the camera https://astrohutech.store/product/hutech-counterweight-kit-for-cfw/ but I somehow lost the clamp; maybe I accidentally threw it into the trash when I was thinking about one of those Mono vs Color debates.

so, I thought deeply what to do now; I stared at my OTA, looked at every shape and hole, and then, I saw a very simple solution

I found that my OTA rings had threaded holes that match the thread of the screw on the tip of the Hutech weight shaft, so I actually didn't need the clamp

so I was able to do this:

(the weight is on the opposite side of the EAF)
IMG-7735n.jpgIMG-7734m.jpg
note: I'm forced to keep my EFW either up or down now (relative to 0 position); I don't care so much about framing orientation anymore as long as my guiding stays this good.

before, I could do 5 minute subs and I would have to trash half of them because of bad DEC guiding, now I can do 20 minute subs with my AVX, no problem, no huge DEC jumpiness, nothing gets trashed:

20 minute sub, APS-C, no BXT:
star.jpg

so, I found the solution for my 65PHQ (lucky me), but what would happen if I get another refractor, or an RC or an SCT? I doubt there would be any way to attach the Hutech shaft anywhere on those OTAs in a place that would counterbalance an EAF.

so, is there a dedicated counterweight for this purpose? what is the solution?

and, sorry for the huge images; I would make them smaller if Astrobin had a resizing feature in the posting area
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rgsalinger 0.00
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Well, basically I offset the focuser weight by using an OAG with the guide camera on the other side of my scopes. I also have never seen the need to balance that closely. I have no data to back this up, though. So, if you've had DEC guiding problems with your mount and a 1 pound or less imbalance, I'm surprised (but in this hobby never amazed by anything anymore).
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Alexn 12.25
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I had this exact problem on my 65PHQ too - because the scope is only 4x the weight of the EAF, and the EAF's center of gravity is about 60mm off center of the scope, almost the whole weight of the EAF.

I 3d printed a bracket that mounts to the dovetail, and allows you to place an M16 threaded rod heading out to the side of the scope (away from the EAF) and then used a 16mm coupler (large nut) threaded onto the rod to achieve balance… that worked perfectly for me. 

The other thing you could try would be to 3d print a mounting solution that put the EAF unit on top of the scope (mounted on the finder shoe perhaps) then run a GT2 pulley/belt system to belt drive the focuser…. Or, rotate the OTA such that the EAF was pointing 'upward' from the OTA, thus, largely centralising its weight offset… That's how I'd be doing it
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Alexn 12.25
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Ross Salinger:
Well, basically I offset the focuser weight by using an OAG with the guide camera on the other side of my scopes. I also have never seen the need to balance that closely. I have no data to back this up, though. So, if you've had DEC guiding problems with your mount and a 1 pound or less imbalance, I'm surprised (but in this hobby never amazed by anything anymore).

I guess it really depends on the mount being used... When I was having the issue, my mount was VERY sensitive to imbalance, especially 3rd axis imbalances in dec... So i noticed my guiding go from 0.4" RMS to 1.1" RMS just from adding the EAF, this is why I needed to find a solution.

I have since purchased a harmonic mount, and it simply does not care about the balance what so ever, and guides perfectly fine with with the EAF and no 3rd axis counter weight..
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rgsalinger 0.00
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Makes me wonder, all these comments but as I said with both of my tiny refractors, I keep the focuser on the opposite side from the OAG/guide camera so, they are probably pretty balanced in the first place.
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WhooptieDo 10.40
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I know I'll probably get some backlash for saying this, but you should consider upgrading your mount.    Most the celestron mounts aren't all that great.    With patience you can find a used Atlas or EQ6R for under 1K.    Those mounts couldn't care less what your balance is on a smaller scope like that.
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Alexn 12.25
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My Avalon-Instruments M-Zero is not a rubbish mount - its just a mount that is very particular about balance… so while its 7x the price of a used EQ6R, and its guiding performance when well balanced is incredible (0.3"~0.4" RMS night after night) when there was a 30% imbalance, tending towards one side in declination, those results would get 2.5x worse…

Sure, I could have just thrown the 65PHQ on my G11, and I did that many times before I got the M-Zero, but I don't want to be taking a 45kg mount outside to run a 5kg, 312mm focal length imaging rig…

My G11 couldn't care one way or the other about a 300g imbalance.. or a 1kg imbalance… and my harmonic mount is quite happy with a 9kg scope/camera setup with absolutely no countweight or consideration for balance at all…

Considering the original poster's AVX is now capable of 20 minute subs with the addition of a small, cheap counterweight for the 3rd axis, I'd say that's a perfectly suitable result.

Some people may be happy spending $1k on another mount to resolve this sort of issue, but I personally love the amount of engineering/abstract thinking this hobby tends to produce… I love solving a problem in a way that isn't just 'upgrade the thing to get better result'…
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astroswell 1.51
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Alex Nicholas:
I had this exact problem on my 65PHQ too - because the scope is only 4x the weight of the EAF, and the EAF's center of gravity is about 60mm off center of the scope, almost the whole weight of the EAF.

I 3d printed a bracket that mounts to the dovetail, and allows you to place an M16 threaded rod heading out to the side of the scope (away from the EAF) and then used a 16mm coupler (large nut) threaded onto the rod to achieve balance... that worked perfectly for me. 

The other thing you could try would be to 3d print a mounting solution that put the EAF unit on top of the scope (mounted on the finder shoe perhaps) then run a GT2 pulley/belt system to belt drive the focuser.... Or, rotate the OTA such that the EAF was pointing 'upward' from the OTA, thus, largely centralising its weight offset... That's how I'd be doing it

That's exactly what I did. No issues in 7 months of remote operation so far. I just can't stand that stupid EAF hanging from one side 😅 next time I'll just buy ESATTO
IMG_3295.jpeg
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messierman3000 7.22
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Maxim:
Alex Nicholas:
I had this exact problem on my 65PHQ too - because the scope is only 4x the weight of the EAF, and the EAF's center of gravity is about 60mm off center of the scope, almost the whole weight of the EAF.

I 3d printed a bracket that mounts to the dovetail, and allows you to place an M16 threaded rod heading out to the side of the scope (away from the EAF) and then used a 16mm coupler (large nut) threaded onto the rod to achieve balance... that worked perfectly for me. 

The other thing you could try would be to 3d print a mounting solution that put the EAF unit on top of the scope (mounted on the finder shoe perhaps) then run a GT2 pulley/belt system to belt drive the focuser.... Or, rotate the OTA such that the EAF was pointing 'upward' from the OTA, thus, largely centralising its weight offset... That's how I'd be doing it

That's exactly what I did. No issues in 7 months of remote operation so far. I just can't stand that stupid EAF hanging from one side 😅 next time I'll just buy ESATTO
IMG_3295.jpeg

you and Alex have a very good solution

do you mind sharing the link for all the metal parts and the belt you bought for this project (are those from a kit?)

and the CAD file (or whatever the 3D design file is called), for that bracket you printed (I think you printed it, or did you buy it?)
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astroswell 1.51
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you and Alex have a very good solution

do you mind sharing the link for all the metal parts and the belt you bought for this project (are those from a kit?)

and the CAD file (or whatever the 3D design file is called), for that bracket you printed (I think you printed it, or did you buy it?)

The belt size is GT2 160mm, then there's 36 teeth pulley and 20 teeth pulley and 4 M4 screws with washers. I'm not sure what was their length, probably 10mm. I think you can find it all on aliexpress.
Here's the file, I've printed with 100% filled PETG:

65phq-eaf.stl
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messierman3000 7.22
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Maxim:
you and Alex have a very good solution

do you mind sharing the link for all the metal parts and the belt you bought for this project (are those from a kit?)

and the CAD file (or whatever the 3D design file is called), for that bracket you printed (I think you printed it, or did you buy it?)

The belt size is GT2 160mm, then there's 36 teeth pulley and 20 teeth pulley and 4 M4 screws with washers. I'm not sure what was their length, probably 10mm. I think you can find it all on aliexpress.
Here's the file, I've printed with 100% filled PETG:

65phq-eaf.stl

Thank you! IMO, this is a perfect solution for non-harmonic mount users.
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messierman3000 7.22
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Thanks everybody
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AstroÅmazer 0.00
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I use small rig counterweights and clamps:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PTMYRLS

​​https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07KW2YXVW
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