[RCC] - Veil Nebula region in SHO Requests for constructive critique · Rick Krejci · ... · 11 · 511 · 4

Ricksastro 1.51
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I struggled processing this one a bit.    Early versions had too much green (Ha).   Too saturated.   Should I just do HOO?

I came across this tutorial, which is more Photoshop oriented with extensive use of layering and really found it enlightening and much more flexible than doing most of my processing in Pixinsight (especially being new to Pixinsight).   The nice thing is that none of the adjustments are descructive, so I can go back and adjust each layer until I'm happy.

I followed my normal Pixinsight process for this small refractor (Zwo FF65):

WBPP with darks only (flats not really needed)

To generate star screen only:
   Color Combine of SHO masters
   Spectrophotometric Color Calibration in Narrowband mode optimize for stars
   Blur Xterminator (0.2 Star, 0.27 Halo)
   Star Xterminator (generate star screen)
   Screen Transfer Function - stretch star image.
   Save star screen as TIF

To generate stretched starless nebula S, H and O images:
   Star Xterminator on the S, H and O masters, no star screen needed
   Blur Xterminator (0.6 nonstellar)
   Screen Transfer Function - stretch S, H and O starless masters so histograms are similar.
   Save S. H and O stretched images as TIF.

From that point I generally followed the linked PS tutorial above: 
   Loaded the S, O, H and Stars into layers from bottom to top, putting each into their own adjustment group with levels and curves for each group. 
   Set S to Red channel only
   Set O to G and B channels.  Pull G down about 1/3-1/2 of the way down the right side in curves for the O group give it a more balanced blue rather than deep royal blue
   Set H to all channels but pull Red and Blue down to at or near zero on the right side in curves for the H group so it will be primarily Green.  
   Adjust levels and curves for each, S, H, O and Stars to bring background in balance and a good balance of the colors.
   Create a curves and color balance layer over all the SHO layers and tweak as desired
   Set Stars as the top layer and set to Screen
   Run NoiseXterminator in PS to keep some noise in the background but make it less noticeable.


Overall, I like that you can pick out each narrowband in some areas including the faint green Ha ring on the east portion as well as an Oiii red background glow west of the west veil portion.  But I've not found a lot of other SHO veil examples that look similar

Any comments or critiques would be appreciated

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Krizan 5.94
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HOO works great on the Veil.   There is very clear distinction between the Ha and OIII regions in the Veil. That's what makes the Veil so nice to process in HOO.  I think adding the SII signal and assigning Ha to green, just complicates things.

Lynn K.
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Ricksastro 1.51
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Lynn K:
HOO works great on the Veil.   There is very clear distinction between the Ha and OIII regions in the Veil. That's what makes the Veil so nice to process in HOO.  I think adding the SII signal and assigning Ha to green, just complicates things.

Lynn K.

Thanks for the reply, Lynn!   While I generally agree, as I processed this image more, I came to appreciate the subtleties the Sii signal added

I did a HOO higher resolution image with my Quattro 250P (West Veil - Witch's Broom - NGC 6960 (Rick Krejci) - AstroBin) and did like the clear interplay between the H and Oiii, but when I did HOO processing of this widefield one, I found it not quite as interesting.    But it still bothers me a little not to have Ha mapped to red though.

This is my first experience with an Oiii filter, so still learning the ropes.

Thanks again!

Rick K
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DalePenkala 19.38
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Rick Krejci:
I struggled processing this one a bit.    Early versions had too much green (Ha).   Too saturated.   Should I just do HOO?

I came across this tutorial, which is more Photoshop oriented with extensive use of layering and really found it enlightening and much more flexible than doing most of my processing in Pixinsight (especially being new to Pixinsight).   The nice thing is that none of the adjustments are descructive, so I can go back and adjust each layer until I'm happy.

I followed my normal Pixinsight process for this small refractor (Zwo FF65):

WBPP with darks only (flats not really needed)

To generate star screen only:
   Color Combine of SHO masters
   Spectrophotometric Color Calibration in Narrowband mode optimize for stars
   Blur Xterminator (0.2 Star, 0.27 Halo)
   Star Xterminator (generate star screen)
   Screen Transfer Function - stretch star image.
   Save star screen as TIF

To generate stretched starless nebula S, H and O images:
   Star Xterminator on the S, H and O masters, no star screen needed
   Blur Xterminator (0.6 nonstellar)
   Screen Transfer Function - stretch S, H and O starless masters so histograms are similar.
   Save S. H and O stretched images as TIF.

From that point I generally followed the linked PS tutorial above: 
   Loaded the S, O, H and Stars into layers from bottom to top, putting each into their own adjustment group with levels and curves for each group. 
   Set S to Red channel only
   Set O to G and B channels.  Pull G down about 1/3-1/2 of the way down the right side in curves for the O group give it a more balanced blue rather than deep royal blue
   Set H to all channels but pull Red and Blue down to at or near zero on the right side in curves for the H group so it will be primarily Green.  
   Adjust levels and curves for each, S, H, O and Stars to bring background in balance and a good balance of the colors.
   Create a curves and color balance layer over all the SHO layers and tweak as desired
   Set Stars as the top layer and set to Screen
   Run NoiseXterminator in PS to keep some noise in the background but make it less noticeable.


Overall, I like that you can pick out each narrowband in some areas including the faint green Ha ring on the east portion as well as an Oiii red background glow west of the west veil portion.  But I've not found a lot of other SHO veil examples that look similar

Any comments or critiques would be appreciated


Hey buddy, glad to see you on here! Followed you and look forward to seeing you images Rick!

As for your post, I’m far from a pro here but I’ve never been a fan of the SHO versions of the Veil but they are interesting to look at. I’ve always done mine in HOO and that is actually several years ago back when I was kinda playing around with AP.

This is strictly a personal thing, but whenever I do an SHO/HSO I prefer to use RGB stars instead of the NB stars that come from the SPCC. They come out ok but I just prefer the RGB stars for my star layer. Again this is a personal thing however.

Anyway great to see you on here buddy!

Dale
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Ricksastro 1.51
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Dale Penkala:
Hey buddy, glad to see you on here! Followed you and look forward to seeing you images Rick!

Thanks, Dale!   After almost 20 years away from the hobby, I had to dust off some cobwebs, but I'm having fun enjoying all the advances since the early 2000s. 

Yea, I probably should have put the exposure time into more Oii and Ha, but wanted to give it a go.   

I agree with you on the RGB stars for sure.   The Zwo filters are wider pass than what I was used to years ago so there were more stars than I expected so I just went with it.   That said, the stars turned out better than expected for narrowband imaging.
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DalePenkala 19.38
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Rick Krejci:
Dale Penkala:
Hey buddy, glad to see you on here! Followed you and look forward to seeing you images Rick!

Thanks, Dale!   After almost 20 years away from the hobby, I had to dust off some cobwebs, but I'm having fun enjoying all the advances since the early 2000s. 

Yea, I probably should have put the exposure time into more Oii and Ha, but wanted to give it a go.   

I agree with you on the RGB stars for sure.   The Zwo filters are wider pass than what I was used to years ago so there were more stars than I expected so I just went with it.   That said, the stars turned out better than expected for narrowband imaging.

Yes, agreed! So much has changed since then!

I actually forgot that your shooting mono so things are a bit different in my case I shoot all OSC so my processing is different from you. 

Looking forward to seeing your work Rick!

Dale
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AstroDan500 7.19
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I am not a big fan of SHO for this nebula and  the green is a bit off putting for me but colors are subjective.
I also own the 2600mm and I am curious about your statement that Flats are not needed.
The general consensus of that camera is that Darks are not needed although I use them but Flats calibrated with dark flats  I feel are totally necessary with all cameras.
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Ricksastro 1.51
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Dan Kearl:
I am not a big fan of SHO for this nebula and  the green is a bit off putting for me but colors are subjective.
I also own the 2600mm and I am curious about your statement that Flats are not needed.
The general consensus of that camera is that Darks are not needed although I use them but Flats calibrated with dark flats  I feel are totally necessary with all cameras.

Thanks for the feedback...completely understand your comment on the colors especially the Ha green areas, since green is not normally a color one sees in a DSO image.    My goal was to try to differentiate the various wavelengths, particularly Ha and Sii.   

I took flats and processed this image with found my imperfect flats introduced a gradient.    So I processed without flats the images looked nearly identical except no gradient.   The FF65 with the .25 flattener/reducer produces a very flat field.     I absolutely do need flats with my Quattro 250p

When I do flats, I just use a master bias rather than dark flats.   The main reason for a dark flat is to remove the bias/pedestal so it will mathematically work correctly. It's not to remove the dark noise since the exposures are short and light completely swamps any dark noise which is negligible to begin with as you said.  A bias frame does that without having to worry about matching exposure time/temp of flat frames or ensuring there are no light leaks, especially since I use auto exposure for my flats.

I used to not use darks for DSO imaging, but they are so easy to take and reuse for months that there's little reason for me not to use them, even if the improvement is minimal. 

Thanks again for the feedback!
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Ricksastro 1.51
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I tried something a little different with the image to avoid the green areas.     I basically processed it as HOO, but then added the Sii image into the green channel.   So still have the familiar red Ha, the Cyan Oiii but brought in the oranges of the Sii, so H(SO)O.    Not traditional, but I do like the look overall, a little richer than the HOO and still differentiates the Ha dominant red areas.    Comments/suggestions welcome!



Veil Complex in H(SO)O Palette
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AstroDan500 7.19
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I would back off the magenta a tad but otherwise a big improvement for me..
Nice work!
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Mazzif 0.00
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I landed at a similar pallet when doing this region in SHO. I was just processing in PI thought. What attracted me to it originally, was the Hubble image.  I think your capture looks awesome.

The Veil Nebula Complex in SHO
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Ricksastro 1.51
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Dan Kearl:
I would back off the magenta a tad but otherwise a big improvement for me..
Nice work!

Backed the Magenta on the stars and did a final color tweak.   I'm pretty satisfied with it ( until I'm not again )

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