Hi all, I’m new to mono imaging and would like some honest feedback about my latest image. I use a very basic, straight forward SHO workflow in pixinsight. I usually struggle with stars and my background. In this case, I feel like the whole image just came out . . . weird. https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76Dumbbell Nebula in SHO 2025 (Rev1) by Tommy Mastro Published: Jul 12, 2025 Total integration: 25h 20m Integration per filter: - Hα: 10h (150 × 240") - SII: 6h 40m (100 × 240") - OIII: 8h 40m (130 × 240") Equipment: - Telescope: Celestron C9.25 SC XLT - Camera: ToupTek ATR585M - Mount: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro - Filters: Astronomik H-alpha CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik OIII CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik SII CCD 6nm 2" - Accessory: Starizona SCT Corrector 0.63x - Software: Pleiades Astrophoto PixInsight, Stefan Berg Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy (N.I.N.A. / NINA) For more information, visit AstroBin: https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76Thanks in advance!
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The stars color looks weird to me, maybe try getting some RGB data for them?
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Médéric Hébert (sgthebert)The stars color looks weird to me, maybe try getting some RGB data for them? Agreed. Isn’t the nebula weird too. I mean it doesn’t look like the common dumbbell shape you see in most images.
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Tommy Mastro:
I mean it doesn’t look like the common dumbbell shape you see in most images. While it does seems to have different shape than what we usually see, I've just finish processing the same target and I can see roughly the same shape as yours in my data (coloring is different as I'm doing HOO instead of SHO) Here's what I mean: Ha  O3  Did you have interesting data for S2? (aka should I try to get some too?) I'm not an expert on anything so I'll let other shim in for the more detailed/complicated critique.
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Tommy Mastro:
Médéric Hébert (sgthebert)The stars color looks weird to me, maybe try getting some RGB data for them?
Agreed. Isn’t the nebula weird too. I mean it doesn’t look like the common dumbbell shape you see in most images. Not sure what you are on about here, it’s the perfect shape for the Dumbell Nebula, and it’s exactly how it should look shape wise, with the extra faint nebula showing around the outside, I agree the colour is a tad off, but a superb image all the same…
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Wow, thanks. I felt like the right side was much more prominent than the left (lop-sided) . . . as compared to other images I have seen.
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Tommy Mastro:
Hi all,
I’m new to mono imaging and would like some honest feedback about my latest image. I use a very basic, straight forward SHO workflow in pixinsight. I usually struggle with stars and my background. In this case, I feel like the whole image just came out . . . weird.
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Dumbbell Nebula in SHO 2025 (Rev1)
by Tommy Mastro
Published: Jul 12, 2025
Total integration: 25h 20m
Integration per filter:
- Hα: 10h (150 × 240")
- SII: 6h 40m (100 × 240")
- OIII: 8h 40m (130 × 240")
Equipment:
- Telescope: Celestron C9.25 SC XLT
- Camera: ToupTek ATR585M
- Mount: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro
- Filters: Astronomik H-alpha CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik OIII CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik SII CCD 6nm 2"
- Accessory: Starizona SCT Corrector 0.63x
- Software: Pleiades Astrophoto PixInsight, Stefan Berg Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy (N.I.N.A. / NINA)
For more information, visit AstroBin:
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Thanks in advance! Hey Tommy, to my eyes the stars look a tad bit out of focus. CS! Rajat
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Rajat Kumar:
Tommy Mastro:
Hi all,
I’m new to mono imaging and would like some honest feedback about my latest image. I use a very basic, straight forward SHO workflow in pixinsight. I usually struggle with stars and my background. In this case, I feel like the whole image just came out . . . weird.
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Dumbbell Nebula in SHO 2025 (Rev1)
by Tommy Mastro
Published: Jul 12, 2025
Total integration: 25h 20m
Integration per filter:
- Hα: 10h (150 × 240")
- SII: 6h 40m (100 × 240")
- OIII: 8h 40m (130 × 240")
Equipment:
- Telescope: Celestron C9.25 SC XLT
- Camera: ToupTek ATR585M
- Mount: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro
- Filters: Astronomik H-alpha CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik OIII CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik SII CCD 6nm 2"
- Accessory: Starizona SCT Corrector 0.63x
- Software: Pleiades Astrophoto PixInsight, Stefan Berg Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy (N.I.N.A. / NINA)
For more information, visit AstroBin:
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Thanks in advance!
Hey Tommy, to my eyes the stars look a tad bit out of focus.
CS!
Rajat Yep, I solved that issue the night before last. I wasn't using filter offsets and my auto-focus runs for the SHO filters didn't have a long enough exposure. So when there was a filter change, the AF routine would fail. I didn't realize this because I sleep through it, but I eventually figured out what was happening. Now I have the ight exposure times for each filter. Although I also have the filter offsets now, so I really will only be using my Luminance filter for focusing. Last night's focus routines were perfect and the images sharp.
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Médéric Hébert:
Tommy Mastro:
I mean it doesn’t look like the common dumbbell shape you see in most images.
Did you have interesting data for S2? (aka should I try to get some too?)
I'm not an expert on anything so I'll let other shim in for the more detailed/complicated critique. I only noticed that SII didn't have a lot of nebulosity around the main center like OIII and HA had. I was basically just the ball in the center. But I did combine them all equally, then I used Narrowband Normalization in PI to boost the OIII a bit.
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Tommy,
The image looks good to me. The colors are different, but that's in comparison to a regular LRGB broadband image. Overall, it looks like a good effort. Your guiding looks spot on…nice round stars!
Ron Abbott
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Tommy Mastro:
Rajat Kumar:
Tommy Mastro:
Hi all,
I’m new to mono imaging and would like some honest feedback about my latest image. I use a very basic, straight forward SHO workflow in pixinsight. I usually struggle with stars and my background. In this case, I feel like the whole image just came out . . . weird.
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Dumbbell Nebula in SHO 2025 (Rev1)
by Tommy Mastro
Published: Jul 12, 2025
Total integration: 25h 20m
Integration per filter:
- Hα: 10h (150 × 240")
- SII: 6h 40m (100 × 240")
- OIII: 8h 40m (130 × 240")
Equipment:
- Telescope: Celestron C9.25 SC XLT
- Camera: ToupTek ATR585M
- Mount: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro
- Filters: Astronomik H-alpha CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik OIII CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik SII CCD 6nm 2"
- Accessory: Starizona SCT Corrector 0.63x
- Software: Pleiades Astrophoto PixInsight, Stefan Berg Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy (N.I.N.A. / NINA)
For more information, visit AstroBin:
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Thanks in advance!
Hey Tommy, to my eyes the stars look a tad bit out of focus.
CS!
Rajat
Yep, I solved that issue the night before last. I wasn't using filter offsets and my auto-focus runs for the SHO filters didn't have a long enough exposure. So when there was a filter change, the AF routine would fail. I didn't realize this because I sleep through it, but I eventually figured out what was happening. Now I have the ight exposure times for each filter. Although I also have the filter offsets now, so I really will only be using my Luminance filter for focusing. Last night's focus routines were perfect and the images sharp. Normally in NINA, when you set up your filter offsets so that everything is referenced to the L filter. That way, if your offsets are accurate, you only have to focus for the L filter and never will have to focus the others.
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I think the shape of the nebulosity is correct. Those that object to it, may not be familiar with the extented "Fan Shap" of the Dumbbell captured wiith narrow band filters. The color is typical of processed SHO palette. The Ha as green is now the typical golden Yellow brown and OIII is blue.
If you prefer a more natural color palette, you might go with HOO. (Ha+SII) as red, OIII as Green and OIII as blue.
There are processes in Pi that render more accurate star color in a saperate star image.
You are into a whole new world of possibilities with mono narrow band imaging.
Lynn K.
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Tony Gondola:
Tommy Mastro:
Rajat Kumar:
Tommy Mastro:
Hi all,
I’m new to mono imaging and would like some honest feedback about my latest image. I use a very basic, straight forward SHO workflow in pixinsight. I usually struggle with stars and my background. In this case, I feel like the whole image just came out . . . weird.
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Dumbbell Nebula in SHO 2025 (Rev1)
by Tommy Mastro
Published: Jul 12, 2025
Total integration: 25h 20m
Integration per filter:
- Hα: 10h (150 × 240")
- SII: 6h 40m (100 × 240")
- OIII: 8h 40m (130 × 240")
Equipment:
- Telescope: Celestron C9.25 SC XLT
- Camera: ToupTek ATR585M
- Mount: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro
- Filters: Astronomik H-alpha CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik OIII CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik SII CCD 6nm 2"
- Accessory: Starizona SCT Corrector 0.63x
- Software: Pleiades Astrophoto PixInsight, Stefan Berg Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy (N.I.N.A. / NINA)
For more information, visit AstroBin:
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Thanks in advance!
Hey Tommy, to my eyes the stars look a tad bit out of focus.
CS!
Rajat
Yep, I solved that issue the night before last. I wasn't using filter offsets and my auto-focus runs for the SHO filters didn't have a long enough exposure. So when there was a filter change, the AF routine would fail. I didn't realize this because I sleep through it, but I eventually figured out what was happening. Now I have the ight exposure times for each filter. Although I also have the filter offsets now, so I really will only be using my Luminance filter for focusing. Last night's focus routines were perfect and the images sharp.
Normally in NINA, when you set up your filter offsets so that everything is referenced to the L filter. That way, if your offsets are accurate, you only have to focus for the L filter and never will have to focus the others. Well that depends. I have it focus on my green filter because it's the highest offset.
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Lynn K:
I think the shape of the nebulosity is correct. Those that object to it, may not be familiar with the extented "Fan Shap" of the Dumbbell captured wiith narrow band filters. The color is typical of processed SHO palette. The Ha as green is now the typical golden Yellow brown and OIII is blue.
If you prefer a more natural color palette, you might go with HOO. (Ha+SII) as red, OIII as Green and OIII as blue.
There are processes in Pi that render more accurate star color in a saperate star image.
You are into a whole new world of possibilities with mono narrow band imaging.
Lynn K. Thanks Lynn. I will look into the PI process for NB stars. Hopefully there is a video on YouTube  And thanks for the advice about HOO. I may give that a try as well!
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Quinn Groessl:
Tony Gondola:
Tommy Mastro:
Rajat Kumar:
Tommy Mastro:
Hi all,
I’m new to mono imaging and would like some honest feedback about my latest image. I use a very basic, straight forward SHO workflow in pixinsight. I usually struggle with stars and my background. In this case, I feel like the whole image just came out . . . weird.
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Dumbbell Nebula in SHO 2025 (Rev1)
by Tommy Mastro
Published: Jul 12, 2025
Total integration: 25h 20m
Integration per filter:
- Hα: 10h (150 × 240")
- SII: 6h 40m (100 × 240")
- OIII: 8h 40m (130 × 240")
Equipment:
- Telescope: Celestron C9.25 SC XLT
- Camera: ToupTek ATR585M
- Mount: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro
- Filters: Astronomik H-alpha CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik OIII CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik SII CCD 6nm 2"
- Accessory: Starizona SCT Corrector 0.63x
- Software: Pleiades Astrophoto PixInsight, Stefan Berg Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy (N.I.N.A. / NINA)
For more information, visit AstroBin:
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Thanks in advance!
Hey Tommy, to my eyes the stars look a tad bit out of focus.
CS!
Rajat
Yep, I solved that issue the night before last. I wasn't using filter offsets and my auto-focus runs for the SHO filters didn't have a long enough exposure. So when there was a filter change, the AF routine would fail. I didn't realize this because I sleep through it, but I eventually figured out what was happening. Now I have the ight exposure times for each filter. Although I also have the filter offsets now, so I really will only be using my Luminance filter for focusing. Last night's focus routines were perfect and the images sharp.
Normally in NINA, when you set up your filter offsets so that everything is referenced to the L filter. That way, if your offsets are accurate, you only have to focus for the L filter and never will have to focus the others.
Well that depends. I have it focus on my green filter because it's the highest offset. Interesting. Why would the higher offset matter? Thanks.
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Tommy Mastro:
Quinn Groessl:
Normally in NINA, when you set up your filter offsets so that everything is referenced to the L filter. That way, if your offsets are accurate, you only have to focus for the L filter and never will have to focus the others.
Well that depends. I have it focus on my green filter because it's the highest offset.
Interesting. Why would the higher offset matter? Thanks. It probably doesn't really, I think it was a Patriot Astro video that teaches it that way. If you put your filters in your sequence in the same order as what they are for filter offsets you shouldn't have to worry about backlash is what I think is the reason.
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For the stars, use the Seti Astro NB to RGB star combination script. The Seti Astro Perfect Pallet Picker is also a great script to see which pallet will work best with your data. In Scripts -> Toolbox there is NarrowbandHueCombination that can work well for some data. https://astro-photographie.fr/traitement_pixinsight.html |
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Quinn Groessl:
Tommy Mastro:
Quinn Groessl:
Normally in NINA, when you set up your filter offsets so that everything is referenced to the L filter. That way, if your offsets are accurate, you only have to focus for the L filter and never will have to focus the others.
Well that depends. I have it focus on my green filter because it's the highest offset.
Interesting. Why would the higher offset matter? Thanks.
It probably doesn't really, I think it was a Patriot Astro video that teaches it that way. If you put your filters in your sequence in the same order as what they are for filter offsets you shouldn't have to worry about backlash is what I think is the reason. *** That makes sense. I wouldn’t have thought of it. Thanks!
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For the stars, use the Seti Astro NB to RGB star combination script.
The Seti Astro Perfect Pallet Picker is also a great script to see which pallet will work best with your data.
In Scripts -> Toolbox there is NarrowbandHueCombination that can work well for some data.
https://astro-photographie.fr/traitement_pixinsight.html *Awesome, thanks!
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Quinn Groessl:
Tony Gondola:
Tommy Mastro:
Rajat Kumar:
Tommy Mastro:
Hi all,
I’m new to mono imaging and would like some honest feedback about my latest image. I use a very basic, straight forward SHO workflow in pixinsight. I usually struggle with stars and my background. In this case, I feel like the whole image just came out . . . weird.
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Dumbbell Nebula in SHO 2025 (Rev1)
by Tommy Mastro
Published: Jul 12, 2025
Total integration: 25h 20m
Integration per filter:
- Hα: 10h (150 × 240")
- SII: 6h 40m (100 × 240")
- OIII: 8h 40m (130 × 240")
Equipment:
- Telescope: Celestron C9.25 SC XLT
- Camera: ToupTek ATR585M
- Mount: Sky-Watcher EQ6-R Pro
- Filters: Astronomik H-alpha CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik OIII CCD 6nm 2", Astronomik SII CCD 6nm 2"
- Accessory: Starizona SCT Corrector 0.63x
- Software: Pleiades Astrophoto PixInsight, Stefan Berg Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy (N.I.N.A. / NINA)
For more information, visit AstroBin:
https://app.astrobin.com/i/1ono76
Thanks in advance!
Hey Tommy, to my eyes the stars look a tad bit out of focus.
CS!
Rajat
Yep, I solved that issue the night before last. I wasn't using filter offsets and my auto-focus runs for the SHO filters didn't have a long enough exposure. So when there was a filter change, the AF routine would fail. I didn't realize this because I sleep through it, but I eventually figured out what was happening. Now I have the ight exposure times for each filter. Although I also have the filter offsets now, so I really will only be using my Luminance filter for focusing. Last night's focus routines were perfect and the images sharp.
Normally in NINA, when you set up your filter offsets so that everything is referenced to the L filter. That way, if your offsets are accurate, you only have to focus for the L filter and never will have to focus the others.
Well that depends. I have it focus on my green filter because it's the highest offset. Sure, I just wanted to make the point that you can use a reference that's easy to achieve focus with. NINA will allow you to specify any filter as the ref.
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Tommy, I haven't read through this entire thread so forgive me if I'm repeating what others might have said. Here's what I see: 1) The stars are out of focus. When the focus is good, the stars will be pinpoints. Fix this first before going any further! 2) The some stars show chromatic errors, which could come from a stacking error or a problem with tracking and/or image rejection. When you are doing this properly, the stars will have radially uniform colors. Figure out why this is happening and fix it. 3) The stars are not well processed. Some of them have color but they are all presented as flat-topped disks. This is most likely because you sharpened them. When you sharpen the nebula features, you must not touch the stars! They should have a peaked brightness profile. The only way to properly sharpen the stars is through deconvolution--and you should only do that once. 4) If you use NB star data (i.e. you don't insert RGB star data), you should neutralize their colors so that they all appear white. Properly done, all white stars in a NB image look just fine. 5) The colors are indeed a little "weird" but for NB images you are allowed to map the colors however you like. The thing you want to do is to figure out how to map them into a generally more pleasing palette. An RGB HOO combination might work better, but there are a lot of options. 6) Pay close attention to how you set the black point. Your background is an unappealing gray/magenta color that doesn't look anything like the blackness of space. For this object, the black level should be roughly R=G=B and in the darkest regions, it should sit at around 18-25 for each of the color channels (in 8 bits). 25 will probably be too bright but that's something that you'd have to experiment with. As an example, heres what I did with NB data on the same object using a HOO palette and with white stars. https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap161102.htmlGood luck with it! John
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John Hayes:
Tommy,
I haven't read through this entire thread so forgive me if I'm repeating what others might have said. Here's what I see:
1) The stars are out of focus. When the focus is good, the stars will be pinpoints. Fix this first before going any further!
2) The some stars show chromatic errors, which could come from a stacking error or a problem with tracking and/or image rejection. When you are doing this properly, the stars will have radially uniform colors. Figure out why this is happening and fix it.
3) The stars are not well processed. Some of them have color but they are all presented as flat-topped disks. This is most likely because you sharpened them. When you sharpen the nebula features, you must not touch the stars! They should have a peaked brightness profile. The only way to properly sharpen the stars is through deconvolution--and you should only do that once.
4) If you use NB star data (i.e. you don't insert RGB star data), you should neutralize their colors so that they all appear white. Properly done, all white stars in a NB image look just fine.
5) The colors are indeed a little "weird" but for NB images you are allowed to map the colors however you like. The thing you want to do is to figure out how to map them into a generally more pleasing palette. An RGB HOO combination might work better, but there are a lot of options.
6) Pay close attention to how you set the black point. Your background is an unappealing gray/magenta color that doesn't look anything like the blackness of space. For this object, the black level should be roughly R=G=B and in the darkest regions, it should sit at around 18-25 for each of the color channels (in 8 bits). 25 will probably be too bright but that's something that you'd have to experiment with.
As an example, heres what I did with NB data on the same object using a HOO palette and with white stars. https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap161102.html
Good luck with it!
John Thanks john, and nice APOD! 1) yep, I already discovered what the focus issue was and fixed it. It was in a previous post but thanks for catching it just the same. 2) I did have several nights with poor guiding (oval stars on top of the focus issues (the EQ6-R struggles with my C9.25 SCT at 1473 focal length, even with an OAG). I probably didn't remove as many Subs as I should have before I stacked. Or I may be out of collimation - or both. 3) I've never thought to look at the stars' Histogram. I will make sure they are peaked, and not flat-topped (and you are referring to the Histogram, yes?). I will be sure to pull the stars from the image before sharpening the nebula. 4) I was given a few pointers in this regard. One was to use Seti Astro's NB to RGB star combination script, which I'm excited to try. But I may also start taking RGB for stars. 5) Got it, thanks. 6) Okay, this one is over my head a bit. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "it should sit at around 18-25 for each of the color channels (in 8 bits).". Are you referring to the numbers within Histogram Transformation? And what would this translate to for a 14/16 bit camera? Lots of good advice here. Thank you much for sharing. Greatly appreciated!
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Tommy Mastro:
6) Okay, this one is over my head a bit. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "it should sit at around 18-25 for each of the color channels (in 8 bits).". Are you referring to the numbers within Histogram Transformation? And what would this translate to for a 14/16 bit camera? I was referring to sampling the brightness at a point in an eyedroper tool like the one in Photoshop. What are you using for processing and how can you sample brightness and color? John
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I primarily use Pixinsight, but I also have Affinity Photo (a PS rip off).
Until just now, I’ve never heard of sampling brightness or color. Other than looking at a Histogram and making sure my data is not clipped.
I’ll need to look into this, thanks.
Tommy
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Tommy, in Affinity Photo click on the "color picker" tool from the left tool bar and then go to the upper right and click on "color" which is a tab right next to histogram. You'll see the 8 bit values displayed. These are the numbers that will be as John described. Just click on the sky background to get the value and color balance.
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